Rand Paul.....sigh.

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Warren
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Warren »

nicole wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:29
Just pathetic excuse-making for Trump this morning. Even though he says he agrees that the Russians did try to meddle! But they were just revealing “uncomfortable truths” about Hillary, so they’re really the heroes of this story, and we meddle in elections all the time so it’s not really a big deal, and he’s totally not a US government official who should care about protecting the country against that sort of thing.
He's not wrong.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau »

nicole wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:29
Just pathetic excuse-making for Trump this morning. Even though he says he agrees that the Russians did try to meddle! But they were just revealing “uncomfortable truths” about Hillary, so they’re really the heroes of this story, and we meddle in elections all the time so it’s not really a big deal, and he’s totally not a US government official who should care about protecting the country against that sort of thing.
How long before we get pictures of him hanging out with Maria Butina?
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 18:25
nicole wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:29
Just pathetic excuse-making for Trump this morning. Even though he says he agrees that the Russians did try to meddle! But they were just revealing “uncomfortable truths” about Hillary, so they’re really the heroes of this story, and we meddle in elections all the time so it’s not really a big deal, and he’s totally not a US government official who should care about protecting the country against that sort of thing.
He's not wrong.
He is wrong, because exposing truths asymmetrically is not heroism. If they'd taken both Team Red and Team Blue emails and dumped them, then we'd have unprecedented insight into the shitshow that is American politics and could've drawn some serious conclusions. Getting a look at Team Blue's goodies while having no idea what Team Red's got going on under the hood is shitty, especially if they're at it for Russia's good, not America's.

If we agree that it's shitty when the US meddles in other countries' democracies and that the people whose elections get shat upon have some rightful grievance against the US, then we've got a rightful grievance against Russia.

What you two are cheering for is just 'fuck institutions whoever's got the power gets to fuck everybody forever and that's perfectly okay as long as some other asshole gets fucked first.'
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Mo »

Also, the way things like emails get reported tend to be decontextualized. Like if gryll posts were reported, the most inflammatory stuff would get posted without context that it's an inside joke, referring to something else, part of a longer thread, etc.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Warren »

lunchstealer wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 03:57
Warren wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 18:25
nicole wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:29
Just pathetic excuse-making for Trump this morning. Even though he says he agrees that the Russians did try to meddle! But they were just revealing “uncomfortable truths” about Hillary, so they’re really the heroes of this story, and we meddle in elections all the time so it’s not really a big deal, and he’s totally not a US government official who should care about protecting the country against that sort of thing.
He's not wrong.
He is wrong, because exposing truths asymmetrically is not heroism. If they'd taken both Team Red and Team Blue emails and dumped them, then we'd have unprecedented insight into the shitshow that is American politics and could've drawn some serious conclusions. Getting a look at Team Blue's goodies while having no idea what Team Red's got going on under the hood is shitty, especially if they're at it for Russia's good, not America's.

If we agree that it's shitty when the US meddles in other countries' democracies and that the people whose elections get shat upon have some rightful grievance against the US, then we've got a rightful grievance against Russia.

What you two are cheering for is just 'fuck institutions whoever's got the power gets to fuck everybody forever and that's perfectly okay as long as some other asshole gets fucked first.'
Yes yes. His spin is spin. And I'm not certainly not cheering.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau »

Rand Paul is demanding that John Brennan's security clearance be revoked because he criticized Trump's meeting with Putin.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/politics ... index.html

WTF has gotten into Paul that's made him such a suck-up lately? Did Maria Butina get some kompromat on him?
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by tr0g »

Given that Brennan is no longer employed by the United States government, I'm puzzled why he has a security clearance at all. Classified information is distributed on a need to know basis and as a private citizen he doesn't need to know shit. Fucking yank it.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau »

I thought a clearance is something that people can carry between jobs, and it doesn't mean they get information between jobs (they have no need to know) but that they're cleared to be hired into a position in which they would have a need to know.

A lot of retired officials serve on various advisory panels or take on consulting work. Say what you will about the revolving doors, but it isn't a priori bad to say that if somebody has had a clearance and possesses expertise that will come in handy then they can retain their clearance (subject to whatever periodic investigations are needed to retain a clearance) so that they can continue to serve on advisory boards, do consulting, etc.

Case in point: After leaving the FBI, Robert Mueller did some work for a government contractor, then came back to the government as a Special Counsel, a job that obviously requires a clearance. I'm sure somebody had to do some paperwork when he went into each job, to get him access to necessary information, but I doubt he had to start from scratch on getting a clearance when he went into each job.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Jennifer »

FWIW, in my daily job alert emails (bear in mind I'm in Atlanta, where the CDC is), it's not unusual to see job listings come up for which a security clearance of a certain level is required -- not "you qualify for this clearance" but "you have it already."
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Shem »

Your clearance is good for 2 years after you stop using it. The president could pull it, but such decisions are subject to appeal, and it would probably be reinstated, because this is just more idiotic Randstanding to distract from the fact that he's been using his "hand out goodie bags" PAC (the one they can use to donate to other candidates) to cover trips around the world and lavish amenities for himself.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Kolohe »

Depending on what level you need (and got cleared for to begin with) your clearance level can be good for 15, 10, or 5 years after the date your clearance was adjudicated favorably.

Practically, its only the 5 year timeline that matters, because that's the only one that has decent value and takes an extensive and expensive investigation to acquire
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Solitudinarian »

Kolohe wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 18:43
Depending on what level you need (and got cleared for to begin with) your clearance level can be good for 15, 10, or 5 years after the date your clearance was adjudicated favorably.

Practically, its only the 5 year timeline that matters, because that's the only one that has decent value and takes an extensive and expensive investigation to acquire
15 years? That’s news to me. 10 years for Secret, 5 years for Top Secret — but maybe it’s just an Army thing.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Ellie »

15 years is Double Secret. Like probation.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Solitudinarian »

Ellie wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 20:08
15 years is Double Secret. Like probation.
As long as I get to throw up on the S-2.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Warren »

Solitudinarian wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 20:11
Ellie wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 20:08
15 years is Double Secret. Like probation.
As long as I get to throw up on the S-2.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Kolohe »

Solitudinarian wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 19:59
Kolohe wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 18:43
Depending on what level you need (and got cleared for to begin with) your clearance level can be good for 15, 10, or 5 years after the date your clearance was adjudicated favorably.

Practically, its only the 5 year timeline that matters, because that's the only one that has decent value and takes an extensive and expensive investigation to acquire
15 years? That’s news to me. 10 years for Secret, 5 years for Top Secret — but maybe it’s just an Army thing.
Confidential is 15, but the only thing I've seen that really uses that extensively is Nucular.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by fyodor »

Warren wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 18:25
nicole wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 17:29
Just pathetic excuse-making for Trump this morning. Even though he says he agrees that the Russians did try to meddle! But they were just revealing “uncomfortable truths” about Hillary, so they’re really the heroes of this story, and we meddle in elections all the time so it’s not really a big deal, and he’s totally not a US government official who should care about protecting the country against that sort of thing.
He's not wrong.
Satan's Attorney here.

If American citizen does all the stuff Russia did that's been called "meddling", would that not simply be seen as an extra underhanded and dirty but otherwise perfectly legitimate form of 1st Amendment expression?

If that's the case, is it really worse in any concrete way, I mean other than laying on an extra layer of dirt, if it's done by a foreign government?

Also, is there really anything that can be done about it other than faux tongue lashings and economic sanctions that cause both sides (meaning including you and me) economic pain, a cure that's likely much worse than the disease unless they're heeded quickly which they almost certainly wouldn't be? Doesn't this largely fall under the umbrella of espionage which we prosecute when we can but also recognize that in the case of most of it we can't so we just grin and bare it?
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by lunchstealer »

Not the email hacks. That's a federal crime no matter what.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by lunchstealer »

And I have relatively little problem with acknowledging the fact that it's espionage and that's hard to stop and more than a tongue-lashing isn't feasible. But Trump is effectively encouraging it and covering for it. There is a middle ground between "I've signed legislation outlawing Russia; bombing will begin in five minutes!" and "Well we need to have good relations so Putin's a great guy and I'm going to believe him over serious evidence from my own people."
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by fyodor »

lunchstealer wrote:
24 Jul 2018, 17:51
Not the email hacks. That's a federal crime no matter what.
Ah yes. I was thinking of all the fake news stuff.

Satan concedes.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Shem »

fyodor wrote:
24 Jul 2018, 17:57
lunchstealer wrote:
24 Jul 2018, 17:51
Not the email hacks. That's a federal crime no matter what.
Ah yes. I was thinking of all the fake news stuff.

Satan concedes.
There's also the money laundering, and the identity theft, and the campaign finance violations. The whole idea that this is just slipping some PACs some hundos or some extra information is a talking point without much connection to the reality of the investigation.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by lunchstealer »

Yeah the fake news stuff is troubling and problematical but is also just basic agitprop. Voice of America is at least on that continuum.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau »

Man, Rand Paul sure does want to pretend that everything is peachy between the US and Russia.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/06/politics ... index.html

I should referring to him as Randal Ronaldovich Pavel.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Hugh Akston »

Is there a name for the lefty version of QAnon where the American government is being run out of the Kremlin?
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau »

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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