Occupy This

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Aresen
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BEZETSEN DEUTSCHLAND

Post by Aresen » 16 May 2012, 10:48

The Pirate Partei appears to be gaining votes in Germany.

From the article, it appears that they want free everything paid for by someone else.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Warren
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Re: BEZETSEN DEUTSCHLAND

Post by Warren » 16 May 2012, 10:55

Aresen wrote:The Pirate Partei appears to be gaining votes in Germany.

From the article, it appears that they want free everything paid for by someone else.
I'm having problems with the link. But it would be odd to see that kind of thing taking root in Germany. Then again, Germany is the "someone else" for the rest of Europe, and I'm sure they're getting fed up with that.
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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Jennifer
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Jennifer » 16 May 2012, 11:21

GinSlinger wrote:I suppose it is yet another case of "if only we had the RIGHT people in power." I still don't get that train.
Unfortunately, I suspect the majority of modern Americans ride that train now; principles don't matter, all that matters is getting "our guy" in office. Like the Tea Party that thought government spending and growth were just fine until the exact second a black Democrat got into the White House; then and only then did a bunch of middle-aged and elderly people remember "Oh, right, I have a lifelong principled commitment to notions like fiscal responsibility, which is why you'd better keep your fucking government out of my Medicare."

And the Lefties all did the reverse -- TSA and warrantless wiretapping and so forth were all hideous unconstitutional breaches of everything America stands for with a Republican in the White House. Then Mr. Hopenchange took office and the left-wing civil liberties advocates suddenly decided it's all about safety and protection because we heart the Democrats.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Aresen
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Aresen » 16 May 2012, 11:30

Jennifer wrote:
GinSlinger wrote:I suppose it is yet another case of "if only we had the RIGHT people in power." I still don't get that train.
Unfortunately, I suspect the majority of modern Americans ride that train now; principles don't matter, all that matters is getting "our guy" in office. Like the Tea Party that thought government spending and growth were just fine until the exact second a black Democrat got into the White House; then and only then did a bunch of middle-aged and elderly people remember "Oh, right, I have a lifelong principled commitment to notions like fiscal responsibility, which is why you'd better keep your fucking government out of my Medicare."

And the Lefties all did the reverse -- TSA and warrantless wiretapping and so forth were all hideous unconstitutional breaches of everything America stands for with a Republican in the White House. Then Mr. Hopenchange took office and the left-wing civil liberties advocates suddenly decided it's all about safety and protection because we heart the Democrats.
Actually, Jennifer, I think what Ginslinger refers to is what Russians call the "Good Tsar" myth: Things are bad, but the "Good Tsar" will make them right if we can overthrow the "Bad Tsar" or if it weren't for the evil counsellors who obstruct the "Good Tsar".
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Ayn_Randian
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Ayn_Randian » 16 May 2012, 15:10

Jennifer wrote:
GinSlinger wrote:I suppose it is yet another case of "if only we had the RIGHT people in power." I still don't get that train.
Unfortunately, I suspect the majority of modern Americans ride that train now; principles don't matter, all that matters is getting "our guy" in office. Like the Tea Party that thought government spending and growth were just fine until the exact second a black Democrat got into the White House; then and only then did a bunch of middle-aged and elderly people remember "Oh, right, I have a lifelong principled commitment to notions like fiscal responsibility, which is why you'd better keep your fucking government out of my Medicare."

And the Lefties all did the reverse -- TSA and warrantless wiretapping and so forth were all hideous unconstitutional breaches of everything America stands for with a Republican in the White House. Then Mr. Hopenchange took office and the left-wing civil liberties advocates suddenly decided it's all about safety and protection because we heart the Democrats.
:roll: I agree that much of the Tea Party's animus was (or at least wound up to be) partisan in nature. There is little to no evidence of a racial angle, media lies to the contrary.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Re: Occupy This

Post by thoreau » 16 May 2012, 15:11

Ayn_Randian wrote: :roll: I agree that much of the Tea Party's animus was (or at least wound up to be) partisan in nature. There is little to no evidence of a racial angle, media lies to the contrary.
Um, Birtherism?
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Warren » 16 May 2012, 15:30

thoreau wrote:
Ayn_Randian wrote: :roll: I agree that much of the Tea Party's animus was (or at least wound up to be) partisan in nature. There is little to no evidence of a racial angle, media lies to the contrary.
Um, Birtherism?
How much Birtherism did the Tea Party nurture? From where I was sitting it looked like a media manufactured nexus.
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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Re: Occupy This

Post by GinSlinger » 16 May 2012, 16:37

So some PhD candidate I know at another program was very much into the Occupy movement (even so far as to travel around to various occupations). Just yesterday this person posted to Facebook their excitement at having just purchased a new VW Jetta.

I don't understand. Not at all.

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thoreau
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Re: Occupy This

Post by thoreau » 16 May 2012, 16:38

GinSlinger wrote:So some PhD candidate I know at another program was very much into the Occupy movement (even so far as to travel around to various occupations). Just yesterday this person posted to Facebook their excitement at having just purchased a new VW Jetta.

I don't understand. Not at all.
Was it at least a clean diesel Jetta or something?
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 16 May 2012, 16:41

Volkswagen
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

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thoreau
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Re: Occupy This

Post by thoreau » 16 May 2012, 16:44

Hugh Akston wrote:Volkswagen
Don't Godwin this thread, Hugh.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Ayn_Randian
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Ayn_Randian » 16 May 2012, 16:45

Warren wrote:
thoreau wrote:
Ayn_Randian wrote: :roll: I agree that much of the Tea Party's animus was (or at least wound up to be) partisan in nature. There is little to no evidence of a racial angle, media lies to the contrary.
Um, Birtherism?
How much Birtherism did the Tea Party nurture? From where I was sitting it looked like a media manufactured nexus.
It definitely was. There's about 1-2% truth and the rest of it is just completely manufactured.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Mo » 16 May 2012, 17:29

Warren wrote:How much Birtherism did the Tea Party nurture? From where I was sitting it looked like a media manufactured nexus.
It's not like it was completely made us, there were polls showing that TPers were about twice as likely as all Americans* to believe birther crap.

* Which had the average brought up by the TPers
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 16 May 2012, 17:57

So the 1/4th theory continues to hold true.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Jadagul » 17 May 2012, 20:27

thoreau wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:Volkswagen
Don't Godwin this thread, Hugh.
You know, at some point I made a mental shift and now whenever I see that word I pronounce it "Folks-vagon" inside my head.

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Jennifer
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Jennifer » 09 May 2019, 23:38

"We are (still) the 99 percent: Occupy Wall Street was seen as a failure when it ended in 2011. But it’s helped transform the American left."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Kolohe
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Kolohe » 12 May 2019, 15:34

Talk about getting tired of winning
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Jennifer » 12 May 2019, 16:37

I have a vague recollection of at least ONE online discussion -- likely on either a Gryll-thread or even a pre-Gryll H&R thread -- talking about how the realistic best-case scenario for libertarians would be similar to the progressive movement of the early 20th century: they never actually managed to get candidates elected, yet many of their ideas which were considered radical at the time are now mainstream. Perhaps something similar will happen re: Occupy?

Of course, they DO get a leg up from the fact that THEIR "bold new initiatives" involve trying to help po'folks, whereas the right-wing's bold new initiatives involve launching criminal investigations against women who miscarry, JUST IN CASE those murderous sluts killed their babeez.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Kolohe » 14 May 2019, 12:58

My skepticism of the Left being able to accomplish anything worthwhile comes from 2 places.

1) their political coalition falls apart when people are actually required to sacrifice anything

2) their propensity for refusing to hold accountable state institutions, and making required managerial choices, whenever anything goes a bit off track, which results in things going a lot off track.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Occupy This

Post by JasonL » 14 May 2019, 13:21

95% number 1

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Re: Occupy This

Post by JasonL » 14 May 2019, 13:29

The intuitions of the left are at least equal parts about a kind of justice and a profound sense that trade offs are for other people / costs aren’t real.

“I’m so tired of hearing we can’t have the world I want JUST BECAUSE it has a price tag,” is a sentiment I’ve heard my whole life.

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Eric the .5b » 14 May 2019, 14:45

The specific relationship of OWS to anything going on now appears to be the 99%/1% slogan business and being the first place some people (particularly young Blues) who'd been ignoring the left heard various left-wing policy demands that had been around for ages.

Because it was just a bunch of left-wingers reciting their material in public with no organization, no focus, no program. And its legacy is various randos who attended the protest (or, like Woodstock, who just said they were there) getting involved in other efforts later and then claiming those successes for OWS.

It's as if people started claiming Unite The Right as the cause for everything right-wing to happen for the next decade, as opposed to just being when a lot of people who hadn't been paying attention to the right got a wake-up call.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Jennifer
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Jennifer » 14 May 2019, 16:44

JasonL wrote:
14 May 2019, 13:29
The intuitions of the left are at least equal parts about a kind of justice and a profound sense that trade offs are for other people / costs aren’t real.

“I’m so tired of hearing we can’t have the world I want JUST BECAUSE it has a price tag,” is a sentiment I’ve heard my whole life.
FWIW, I hear the same thing from the right -- "Fiscal responsibility" but let's keep increasing the military budget and building bridges to nowhere and concentration camps and adding staff to ICE and the Border Patrol to fill said camps and completely ignore what "forcing women to bear children they don't want" will do to poverty rates in this country .... [and on and on].

And that's all BEFORE the right wing decided tariffs are good, because the alternative is criticizing Trump.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Aresen
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Aresen » 14 May 2019, 21:42

Jennifer wrote:
14 May 2019, 16:44
JasonL wrote:
14 May 2019, 13:29
The intuitions of the left are at least equal parts about a kind of justice and a profound sense that trade offs are for other people / costs aren’t real.

“I’m so tired of hearing we can’t have the world I want JUST BECAUSE it has a price tag,” is a sentiment I’ve heard my whole life.
FWIW, I hear the same thing from the right -- "Fiscal responsibility" but let's keep increasing the military budget and building bridges to nowhere and concentration camps and adding staff to ICE and the Border Patrol to fill said camps and completely ignore what "forcing women to bear children they don't want" will do to poverty rates in this country .... [and on and on].

And that's all BEFORE the right wing decided tariffs are good, because the alternative is criticizing Trump.
Due to the willingness of Trump supporters to primary anyone who actively opposes Trump, he has them by the balls.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Eric the .5b » 14 May 2019, 22:14

Aresen wrote:
14 May 2019, 21:42
Jennifer wrote:
14 May 2019, 16:44
JasonL wrote:
14 May 2019, 13:29
The intuitions of the left are at least equal parts about a kind of justice and a profound sense that trade offs are for other people / costs aren’t real.

“I’m so tired of hearing we can’t have the world I want JUST BECAUSE it has a price tag,” is a sentiment I’ve heard my whole life.
FWIW, I hear the same thing from the right -- "Fiscal responsibility" but let's keep increasing the military budget and building bridges to nowhere and concentration camps and adding staff to ICE and the Border Patrol to fill said camps and completely ignore what "forcing women to bear children they don't want" will do to poverty rates in this country .... [and on and on].

And that's all BEFORE the right wing decided tariffs are good, because the alternative is criticizing Trump.
Due to the willingness of Trump supporters to primary anyone who actively opposes Trump, he has them by the balls.
Only two of those things have anything to do with Trump.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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