Occupy This

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Occupy This

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 28 Nov 2011, 20:34

thoreau wrote:
fyodor wrote:
I think the problem is that you've at times talked as if you hoped we might agree with you. :)
Well, obviously I think that whatever opinion I hold is valid....
Almost always valid but occasionally of questionably soundness. *grin*

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thoreau
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Re: Occupy This

Post by thoreau » 28 Nov 2011, 21:10

D.A. Ridgely wrote:of questionably soundness
Dude, I graded lab reports until 2am last night. The bolded error in your post is giving me flashbacks to the stuff I had to grade.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Occupy This

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 28 Nov 2011, 22:17

thoreau wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:of questionably soundness
Dude, I graded lab reports until 2am last night. The bolded error in your post is giving me flashbacks to the stuff I had to grade.
Hah! Serves me right both for posting it and for trying to edit on the fly!

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Ayn_Randian » 28 Nov 2011, 23:40

So the Occutards trespassed on private property and (likely) destroyed a bunch of food. And inconvenienced people who had no role in the harm they are bitching about.

Whatever marginal agreement vis-a-vis the government and its cozy relationship with banks/BigCorp we may have had just went out the window. These douchebags are harming their own 99%.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Jennifer » 29 Nov 2011, 01:05

Ayn_Randian wrote:Whatever marginal agreement vis-a-vis the government and its cozy relationship with banks/BigCorp we may have had just went out the window. These douchebags are harming their own 99%.
There was some of that from the beginning -- I recall saying that shutting down the Smithsonian and ruining people's vacations was a spectacularly stupid move on their part -- but neither can I support how the cops have been acting in regard to them, either.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Jennifer » 29 Nov 2011, 01:06

The Occupy movement is like America: I support what it stands for in principle, but can't stand much of what it's actually been doing lately. But neither can I support its enemies, because they're worse.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 29 Nov 2011, 02:26

When judging any institution, it's worth considering their enemies. The fact that the Tea Party got under the skin of Rachel Maddow-lusting Daily Show-fanboy HufflePost-subscribing Obamatons (like thoreau :P) means they can't be all bad. Same with the Occupados. The more the red meat Red State lawr-n-udder types at H&R rail against them, the more endearing they become.
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Re: Occupy This

Post by dhex » 29 Nov 2011, 09:26

watching the baruch college recap on ny1 today struck me as a bit strange, but given the previous day of arrests it's not too surprising. still, cuny remains a complete bargain, even with a $300 increase.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

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Re: Occupy This

Post by fyodor » 30 Nov 2011, 01:09

Jennifer wrote:The Occupy movement is like America: I support what it stands for in principle, but can't stand much of what it's actually been doing lately.
Well I just learned from a South Park rerun tonight that America was founded on the principle of saying one thing and doing another, so I guess that fits!
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Sandy » 30 Nov 2011, 12:20

Turns out that consensus can't be achieved when protesting:



Whodathunkit?
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Warren » 30 Nov 2011, 12:32

Sandy wrote:Turns out that consensus can't be achieved when protesting:
VIDEO
Whodathunkit?
I think this dog and pony show has gone on well past what I thought it could and still hasn't evolved into anything that can't be set to Entrance of the Gladiators.
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Sandy » 30 Nov 2011, 15:19

Conversing with IRC with a 20-something bitter at how college had failed him (complete with some rather ignorant statements about how easy an Admin Assistant/Receptionist job is), I think I finally grokked the mindset difference that causes much of the "I played by the rules and the rules failed me" angst of the OWS types:

The expectation is that you work hard in college, and then You Get Your Job. And it's a good paying job that enables you to service debt right away. It's also in the exact field you studied, no matter how esoteric.

This guy is working. He's a programmer, so he's being paid pretty well (if not...good god he's not bright; turnips can get pretty high salaries if they know how to configure Drupal these days). But his outlook was hopeless because:

1) Jobs that didn't require degrees were asking for them in job ads. This is true, but he could not see the employer's side of it (if you commit to 4 years of something, you're less likely to just up and quit your job). It's also due to oversupply, but he blamed that on People Telling Him To Do What He Liked.

2) The first job you get is the only job you'll ever have. He simply could not conceive of the concept that one might get a towel-handing-out job and work ones way up (or an admin assistant and become a supervisor, etc.).

3) In the recent past, this was Not So. I'll refrain from linking to "Generation X is sick of your whining".

4) Even if you do switch jobs, working up is impossible, because nobody wants to "give" you a higher position.

5) The future value of a degree is meaningless. It's only the value of it one year out from college that matters.

As someone who, like him, works in a well-paying field that I didn't go to college for, my sympathy for his arguments was limited. If nothing else, the guy's own experience should have shown him that careers are made more than planned.

College degrees, like houses, are long-term investments. You may in fact be worse off than someone who didn't go to college in the short term. But in the long term, and data backs this up, you should be better off because your career has more headroom. You may get the same temp job, but you can rise to higher positions because they're a lot easier to do with college educations than without. If you want to stick to the one thing you trained for, you're limiting your options, and thus may have to spend longer eating ramen until you get your break (or maybe you aren't as good at it as you thought, or maybe it was a poor career choice no matter what). But the set of jobs you'll enjoy is almost always wider than the set of jobs that flow directly out of a given degree.

But if you assume that you can only work in the field you studied, that the first job you get is the only one you'll ever have, and that unless it immediately pays well enough to afford a nice life and pay off student debt, it's worthless, I can see how you'd feel all hopeless about it.

In other words, if you set a bunch of limitations for yourself, you're going to have a harder row to hoe.

...but as much as I think college educations are oversupplied and professors are insufficiently cautionary about prospects of jobs in their fields versus the cost to acquire degrees, I'm not sure it's worth bailing out a bunch of people who enter the economy in a bad job market with debt, when relieving them of that debt won't take back the value of the degree 10 years down the road. At least with a short sale of a house, you're out of the house and renting.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: Occupy This

Post by dhex » 10 Dec 2011, 21:31

http://www.parentsforoccupywallst.com/

truly, markets in everything.
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 10 Dec 2011, 22:09

dhex wrote:http://www.parentsforoccupywallst.com/

truly, markets in everything.
That should help dissuade the notion that Occupados are the entitled product of precious snowflake helicopter parenting.
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thoreau
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Re: Occupy This

Post by thoreau » 10 Dec 2011, 22:15

Hugh Akston wrote:
dhex wrote:http://www.parentsforoccupywallst.com/

truly, markets in everything.
That should help dissuade the notion that Occupados are the entitled product of precious snowflake helicopter parenting.
Hugh, you are this close to pushing all of my buttons and getting me to hate the Occupados.

Are they in any way connected to the Tea Party? Make that case to me, and I'll turn on them! :)
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 10 Dec 2011, 23:03

thoreau wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:
dhex wrote:http://www.parentsforoccupywallst.com/

truly, markets in everything.
That should help dissuade the notion that Occupados are the entitled product of precious snowflake helicopter parenting.
Hugh, you are this close to pushing all of my buttons and getting me to hate the Occupados.

Are they in any way connected to the Tea Party? Make that case to me, and I'll turn on them! :)
I'll do you one batter, t-dawg. I'll go out and see if I can find even one Occupado who knows how to use a protractor.
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Re: Occupy This

Post by thoreau » 10 Dec 2011, 23:09

Hugh Akston wrote:I'll do you one batter, t-dawg. I'll go out and see if I can find even one Occupado who knows how to use a protractor.
Some of the old hippies mixing in with the protest kids might. Those hippies went to school Back In The Good Old Days.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 22 Dec 2011, 16:47

Image
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 22 Dec 2011, 22:10

Arrested Occupado on free speech, the NDAA, city persecution, and the state of city jails. None of it inspires much sympathy for the city government.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Occupy This

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 23 Dec 2011, 12:57


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Kolohe
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Re: Occupy This

Post by Kolohe » 04 Feb 2012, 22:09

They cleared out McPherson Square at oh dark hundred this morning. (The guys on Pennsylvania Ave are still there)

Edit:
I still don't understand why Occupy fetishes their frickin libraries.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Hugh Akston » 04 Feb 2012, 23:05

Kolohe wrote:They cleared out McPherson Square at oh dark hundred this morning. (The guys on Pennsylvania Ave are still there)

Edit:
I still don't understand why Occupy fetishes their frickin libraries.
I get why they fetishize the libraries; knowledge is power and teach-ins and all that hippie shit. But what I'd really like to know is whether they really believe the libraries serve any more than a rhetorical/symbolic purpose.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Occupy This

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 04 Feb 2012, 23:37

I'm not sure how, but I suspect there's a parallel to the campus Marxists of old (old in the sense of "when I was in college") with their folding tables filled with pamphlets and books and newspapers, all courtesy one way or another of the U.S.S.R. But the only thing I remember from such displays was how shabby these books and such were, how poorly printed on such flimsy paper and thinking how miserably poor they must be if this cheap propaganda was supposed to impress Westerners with the superiority of socialism.

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Re: Occupy This

Post by GinSlinger » 21 Mar 2012, 10:33

ZOMBIE THREAD!

I'm really not getting why I'm seeing an overlap between the OWS movement, and armchair MMT talk. It seems as if one were genuinely concerned about "capitalism" (as in Marx's use, to wit: rule by capitalists), and not simply concerned about inflating away debt, one would be rather hostile to theories that allow for things like bailing out Wall St.

I'm not expecting OWS to join Mises.org and fetishize gold or anything. Still . . . .

I suppose it is yet another case of "if only we had the RIGHT people in power." I still don't get that train.

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Re: Occupy This

Post by Aresen » 21 Mar 2012, 10:45

GinSlinger wrote:ZOMBIE THREAD!
Would Zombies stage "Occupy Forest Lawn"?
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