Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

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tr0g
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by tr0g » 26 Jan 2015, 12:33

marshaul wrote:
tr0g wrote:So, anyhow, in my collection of unfinished and unstarted projects I have two quadcopter drone frames. I also have a variety of small arms. Thought experiment for the day: how much trouble do I get in for arming a drone? More curiously (to me), what exactly do they charge me with? Drones are legal. My possession of firearms is legal. There is, AFAIK, no restriction on using controls to actuate otherwise legal firearms (with some caveats). I can't see anything they could charge me with off the top of my head*.

*besides the usal litany of BFYTW charges
What state do you live in?

Remote triggers are perfectly legal and sold commercially.

Of course, an armed drone might make the news, and sufficient hysteria has been known to engender legislative "response", but that isn't what you asked.

You're going to want to ensure the gun is visible to common observation, assuming you live in an Open Carry state. Concealed "carry" is asking for trouble, IMO, especially if your state requires you to present your permit upon request.

Also, many states have brandishing laws, and often these require (as a practical matter) nothing more than pointing a gun to secure a conviction. So, if it were me, I would want an articulating mount so that I could ensure the bore was pointing skywards when not preparing to shoot.

That's all that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Open Carry is the issue here in TX, I think. You would have to do a pistol, and open cary of those is (at the moment) not kosher. Of course, if I keep the drone within the confines of my property, I don't have to worry about open carry issues. Like I said, thought experiment. All I have is frames, and theoretically soon I'll have propellers.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Mo » 26 Jan 2015, 12:59

tr0g wrote:So, anyhow, in my collection of unfinished and unstarted projects I have two quadcopter drone frames. I also have a variety of small arms. Thought experiment for the day: how much trouble do I get in for arming a drone? More curiously (to me), what exactly do they charge me with? Drones are legal. My possession of firearms is legal. There is, AFAIK, no restriction on using controls to actuate otherwise legal firearms (with some caveats). I can't see anything they could charge me with off the top of my head*.

*besides the usal litany of BFYTW charges
I would presume there are some pretty strict FAA rules on armed aircraft.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by tr0g » 26 Jan 2015, 13:40

Mo wrote:
tr0g wrote:So, anyhow, in my collection of unfinished and unstarted projects I have two quadcopter drone frames. I also have a variety of small arms. Thought experiment for the day: how much trouble do I get in for arming a drone? More curiously (to me), what exactly do they charge me with? Drones are legal. My possession of firearms is legal. There is, AFAIK, no restriction on using controls to actuate otherwise legal firearms (with some caveats). I can't see anything they could charge me with off the top of my head*.

*besides the usal litany of BFYTW charges
I would presume there are some pretty strict FAA rules on armed aircraft.
Maybe, but my cursory review of the CFR can't find them.

Incidentally, the FAA doesn't even really have drone regs yet. They were supposed to come out with the rules last year, but so far, nada. It's kind of a mess from the reg aspect right now. They're trying to claim commercial use of drones is verboten, but they're getting challenged in a couple of court cases.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by thoreau » 26 Jan 2015, 13:47

If Airwolf was legal then surely you can arm a remote control airplane, right?
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Kolohe » 26 Jan 2015, 14:00

thoreau wrote:If Airwolf was legal then surely you can arm a remote control airplane, right?
Things were different in Reagan America. You could have a super helicopter, super car, or super motorcycle, and be on the side of the good guys.

(and talk about women in STEM, they haz'd it)
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by marshaul » 26 Jan 2015, 14:19

Texas has no brandishing statute per se. Instead you'll find the following:
Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;
I would say you're going to want to keep it on your property for now; within a curtilage (a fenced-in area) couldn't hurt either. You could make the argument that a bore pointed skywards cannot be "calculated to alarm", but frankly Texas has among the worst "brandishing" statues (ironically without actually having a "brandishing" statue at all). I would feel much more comfortable here in Virginia, where keeping the bore pointed skyward would be an excellent defense against our own brandishing statute. (As it happens, replacing it with a "defensive display" statute has been on the back burner here for about a year now; hopefully over the next decade we will see reform of most state's brandishing laws, which are without exception poorly-written and unnecessary in the first place.)

In related news:

opencarry.org: Texas Senator says unlicensed open carry will reach Governor's desk this session

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 26 Jan 2015, 14:26

marshaul wrote:Texas has no brandishing statute per se. Instead you'll find the following:
Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;
I would say you're going to want to keep it on your property for now; within a curtilage (a fenced-in area) couldn't hurt either. You could make the argument that a bore pointed skywards cannot be "calculated to alarm", but frankly Texas has among the worst "brandishing" statues (ironically without actually having a "brandishing" statue at all). I would feel much more comfortable here in Virginia, where keeping the bore pointed skyward would be an excellent defense against our own brandishing statute. (As it happens, replacing it with a "defensive display" statute has been on the back burner here for about a year now; hopefully over the next decade we will see reform of most state's brandishing laws, which are without exception poorly-written and unnecessary in the first place.)

In related news:

opencarry.org: Texas Senator says unlicensed open carry will reach Governor's desk this session
Not exactly what a curtilage is.

Texas realtors whose shops would otherwise not be exempt from customers with closed carry permits wandering around inside while armed have to post a notice outside the door telling folks they don't want them inside while packing.

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by marshaul » 26 Jan 2015, 14:36

D.A. Ridgely wrote:Not exactly what a curtilage is.
No, that's exactly what a curtilage is. Etymologically derived from the French for "court" (in like fashion with "curtail"), i.e. an enclosed space. Any space which is private property and is fully enclosed so as to clearly convey its limits is a curtilage.

It's true that the SCOTUS has all kinds of analysis relating to the "nature" of a curtilage as affects 4th Amendment claims, but that's the SCOTUS for you: twisting long-standing definitions to justify trashing the 4th. I'll take Blackstone any day.
cur·ti·lage
ˈkərtl-ij/
nounLAW
an area of land attached to a house and forming one enclosure with it.
I'm not sure what your point is re: shop owners, but those are "private property open to the public", which is legalistically an entirely different "class" of property (although it should not be IMO).

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by dbcooper » 26 Jan 2015, 17:13

Kolohe wrote:
thoreau wrote:If Airwolf was legal then surely you can arm a remote control airplane, right?
Things were different in Reagan America. You could have a super helicopter, super car, or super motorcycle, and be on the side of the good guys.

(and talk about women in STEM, they haz'd it)
:)
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Warren » 26 Jan 2015, 18:56

dbcooper wrote:
Kolohe wrote:
thoreau wrote:If Airwolf was legal then surely you can arm a remote control airplane, right?
Things were different in Reagan America. You could have a super helicopter, super car, or super motorcycle, and be on the side of the good guys.

(and talk about women in STEM, they haz'd it)
:)
Supercar?
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Taktix® » 10 Feb 2015, 09:35

Yo, Boston Dynamics needs to knock this shit off. It's bad enough they made this mechanical terror, don't piss it off...

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Feb 2015, 16:58

Taktix[REGISTERED SIGN] wrote:Yo, Boston Dynamics needs to knock this shit off. It's bad enough they made this mechanical terror, don't piss it off...

Image
They keep kicking every iteration of it. Every time.

I get what they're doing, but it's like all those bad movies where they keep tormenting the robot or creature or whatever.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Taktix® » 10 Feb 2015, 17:30

You mean like this?:

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by thoreau » 10 Feb 2015, 17:33

As long as they don't arm the robot and teach it to fight back, we should be OK.

If they cross that line, they should at least make the robot as sexy as Grace Park. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Hugh Akston » 12 Apr 2015, 05:15

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Hugh Akston » 22 Apr 2015, 18:13

Now this is a use for drones I can get behind
Drones flying over prison walls may not be the chief concern of corrections officials. But they say that some would-be smugglers are experimenting with the technique as an alternative to established methods like paying off officers, hiding contraband in incoming laundry and throwing packages disguised as rocks over fences into recreational yards.

The authorities have detected at least three similar attempts at corrections facilities in the United States in the past two years. In the same period, there were also at least four reported attempts abroad, in Ireland, Britain, Australia and Canada.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Hugh Akston » 23 Apr 2015, 14:04

Pakistan drone attack kills two hostages.
Mr. Obama’s remarks came shortly after the White House released an extraordinary statement revealing that intelligence officials had confirmed that Warren Weinstein, an American held by Al Qaeda since 2011, and Giovanni Lo Porto, an Italian held since 2012, died during a drone strike . The White House did not explain why it has taken three months to disclose the episode, although it typically takes some weeks after a strike to confirm the identities of casualties.
on the plus side:
“As president and as commander in chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations,” including the one that inadvertently took the lives of the two captives, a grim-faced Mr. Obama said in a statement to reporters in the White House briefing room.
So I'm sure whatever legal consequences Obama faces for killing those two men will at the very least take away his ability to conduct further drone strikes.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Aresen » 23 Apr 2015, 14:59

Hugh Akston wrote:
“As president and as commander in chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations,” including the one that inadvertently took the lives of the two captives, a grim-faced Mr. Obama said in a statement to reporters in the White House briefing room.
So I'm sure whatever legal consequences Obama faces for killing those two men will at the very least take away his ability to conduct further drone strikes.
I am sure he will be punished in the same way every LEO who uses excessive force is punished:

Two weeks paid vacation in the golf resort of his choice.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by lunchstealer » 23 Apr 2015, 15:13

Hugh Akston wrote:Pakistan drone attack kills two hostages.
Mr. Obama’s remarks came shortly after the White House released an extraordinary statement revealing that intelligence officials had confirmed that Warren Weinstein, an American held by Al Qaeda since 2011, and Giovanni Lo Porto, an Italian held since 2012, died during a drone strike . The White House did not explain why it has taken three months to disclose the episode, although it typically takes some weeks after a strike to confirm the identities of casualties.
on the plus side:
“As president and as commander in chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations,” including the one that inadvertently took the lives of the two captives, a grim-faced Mr. Obama said in a statement to reporters in the White House briefing room.
So I'm sure whatever legal consequences Obama faces for killing those two men will at the very least take away his ability to conduct further drone strikes.
To shamelessly steal from and re-purpose dhex, i just look away because like peeing on a unicorn running through a field of freshly fallen show, it's an expression of cynicism that i don't dare laugh at because of the vomit in my mouth.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Aresen » 26 Apr 2015, 19:39

Drone missions have bipartisan support.

If the reports of drones killing militant leaders are correct, AQ and ISIS have more 'leaders' than most Washington bureaucracies.

I noted this part with some contempt:
About once a month, staff members of the congressional intelligence committees drive across the Potomac River to C.I.A. headquarters in Langley, Va., and watch videos of people being blown up.

As part of the macabre ritual the staff members look at the footage of drone strikes in Pakistan and other countries and a sampling of the intelligence buttressing each strike, but not the internal C.I.A. cables discussing the attacks and their aftermath. The screenings have provided a veneer of congressional oversight and have led lawmakers to claim that the targeted killing program is subject to rigorous review, to defend it vigorously in public and to authorize its sizable budget each year.
IOW, they are relying on the CIA itself to tell them how effective the drone strikes are.

I wish my boss would let me write my own performance review.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 27 Apr 2015, 00:01

Aresen wrote:
I wish my boss would let me write my own performance review.
It doesn't count unless you get to forge his name, too.

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by lunchstealer » 27 Apr 2015, 00:09

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Aresen wrote:
I wish my boss would let me write my own performance review.
It doesn't count unless you get to forge his name, too.
More like, you film yourself working for a couple of hours, and then write your own sales numbers or similar effectiveness measures.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Andrew » 27 Apr 2015, 15:53

lunchstealer wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Aresen wrote:
I wish my boss would let me write my own performance review.
It doesn't count unless you get to forge his name, too.
More like, you film yourself working for a couple of hours, and then write your own sales numbers or similar effectiveness measures.
I initially read "working" as "wanking," which made just as much sense.
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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by Dangerman » 27 Apr 2015, 17:21

Aresen wrote:Drone missions have bipartisan support.

If the reports of drones killing militant leaders are correct, AQ and ISIS have more 'leaders' than most Washington bureaucracies.

I noted this part with some contempt:
About once a month, staff members of the congressional intelligence committees drive across the Potomac River to C.I.A. headquarters in Langley, Va., and watch videos of people being blown up.

As part of the macabre ritual the staff members look at the footage of drone strikes in Pakistan and other countries and a sampling of the intelligence buttressing each strike, but not the internal C.I.A. cables discussing the attacks and their aftermath. The screenings have provided a veneer of congressional oversight and have led lawmakers to claim that the targeted killing program is subject to rigorous review, to defend it vigorously in public and to authorize its sizable budget each year.
IOW, they are relying on the CIA itself to tell them how effective the drone strikes are.

I wish my boss would let me write my own performance review.
So, an interesting sidenote is that it is generally accepted that a Three Letter Agency is supplying Syrian Rebels with ATGM. These fighters must (supposedly) film each use of the missiles before they can be resupplied, so the TLA can somehow keep track of where these rockets are ending up.

Some of these videos feature the same crew operating in different locations, and these crews have gathered a following of sorts in the combat footage community. "Captain Mullet" is seen here



and in fine form with this tricky shot here:



The parallel to the use of drones is that there is supposed to be human eyeballs confirming that yes, we shot a missile, it hit a target, and the target looked like *this*. Which in my book is pretty necessary oversight, even if it's the CIA writing it's own debriefing and performance reports.

It's interesting that we may be seeing 'insurgent' use of drones become not only common, but well documented, especially considering that Russia may be currently supplying drones to fighters in Ukraine.

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Re: Skynet in the sky: The Flying Killer Robot thread

Post by dbcooper » 29 May 2015, 07:42

Image
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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