I just don't get it

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JD
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by JD »

Highway wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 20:31
Open-plan offices are a completely different crime against humanity. I'm hoping they're on their way out, because they're never going to show any of their supposed benefits.
They're not on their way out, though, because of the secret benefit that is the real driver: they're cheap. All that crap about cooperation and serendipity is just a stalking horse for the fact that it's real cheap to set up an open-plan office.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Highway
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Highway »

The cost is reduced productivity, increasked turnover, and higher long term costs in training and retention. Installation costs are lower, but I'm hoping that we're getting to the point where people are starting to understand that initial outlay isn't the only thing.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

There are at least two replica White Houses and one replica Mount Vernon just in the Dallas area, so gawd only knows how many Oval Offices, etc. there may be. Texas may not be quite as garish as its popular stereotype, but there's absolutely no reticence on the part of its gilded classes to indulge in conspicuous consumption, though what the point of knock-off architecture may be in such cases is pretty much lost on me.

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Aresen »

Highway wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 12:07
The cost is reduced productivity, increasked turnover, and higher long term costs in training and retention. Installation costs are lower, but I'm hoping that we're getting to the point where people are starting to understand that initial outlay isn't the only thing.
I see very little indication that most large corporations (and many small employers) regard employees as anything but disposable resources.
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Re: I just don't get it

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JD wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 12:00
Highway wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 20:31
Open-plan offices are a completely different crime against humanity. I'm hoping they're on their way out, because they're never going to show any of their supposed benefits.
They're not on their way out, though, because of the secret benefit that is the real driver: they're cheap. All that crap about cooperation and serendipity is just a stalking horse for the fact that it's real cheap to set up an open-plan office.

My bosses designed our SCHOOL around this model. Our classrooms have walls, but they are all shared spaces and facilities. We can put up no anchor charts, none of our supplies or equipment can be secured. We have to cart everything we use in backpacks or on media carts. We're a MIDDLE SCHOOL.

What kills me is that they based our design off of Cortex, which is a local business incubator. Everything there is painted a different shade of color, because it's so New and Funky and Millennial and all... so we did the same thing here. I don't think it occurred to them that the whole point of Cortex is that it's a transient space, providing business needs on a TEMPORARY basis, so they can get on their feet and move the hell out into a more workable environment. It's great for what it is, but it makes a terrible design for a middle school. I am sure it WAS cheaper, but the faculty absolutely hates it.
Perhaps the greatest loss of all is that we may never again live in a world free of hyperbole. --JasonL

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Painboy
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Painboy »

Wixenstyx wrote:
18 Oct 2019, 15:06
JD wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 12:00
Highway wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 20:31
Open-plan offices are a completely different crime against humanity. I'm hoping they're on their way out, because they're never going to show any of their supposed benefits.
They're not on their way out, though, because of the secret benefit that is the real driver: they're cheap. All that crap about cooperation and serendipity is just a stalking horse for the fact that it's real cheap to set up an open-plan office.

My bosses designed our SCHOOL around this model. Our classrooms have walls, but they are all shared spaces and facilities. We can put up no anchor charts, none of our supplies or equipment can be secured. We have to cart everything we use in backpacks or on media carts. We're a MIDDLE SCHOOL.

What kills me is that they based our design off of Cortex, which is a local business incubator. Everything there is painted a different shade of color, because it's so New and Funky and Millennial and all... so we did the same thing here. I don't think it occurred to them that the whole point of Cortex is that it's a transient space, providing business needs on a TEMPORARY basis, so they can get on their feet and move the hell out into a more workable environment. It's great for what it is, but it makes a terrible design for a middle school. I am sure it WAS cheaper, but the faculty absolutely hates it.
What's old is new. My elementary and middle school was an open concept. I think it was built in the 60s or 70s. Kind of brutalist, it looked like a moonbase from the outside. It was made of concrete formed in adjoining hexagons. There were almost no interior walls and it had 20 foot ceilings. It was obvious the teachers hated it because if one class got loud (which was often) you wouldn't be able to hear anything in the adjoining areas. It also got cold as hell sometimes because all the heat stayed up above the class areas and it was too costly for them to keep it cranked up to compensate (the concrete walls didn't help).

Over time they bit by bit added more and more interior walls and doors as I moved up in grades. Eventually I think they bulldozed it and put up a new building.

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Re: I just don't get it

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Our sister high school in Grand Rapids MI had a stand alone library. It was a round building with a concave roof.
Let that sink in.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Wixenstyx »

Warren wrote:
19 Oct 2019, 15:10
Our sister high school in Grand Rapids MI had a stand alone library. It was a round building with a concave roof.
Let that sink in.
I see what you did there.
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JD
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Re: I just don't get it

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My high school looked like a fortress - high walls with slit-like windows, towers at the corners, crenellations on the roofline. This is because the site used to house an armory, and the armory was popular with the locals; when the city proposed demolishing it and building a high school on the site, the locals protested. And so the city proposed a compromise: we'll build the high school, but we'll make it look just like the armory! As much as this sounds like something Terry Pratchett might have come up with, it is absolutely true. And as you might imagine, it made the school a bit dark and airless, because armories and schools are designed for different purposes.
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thoreau
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau »

JD wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:42
armories and schools are designed for different purposes.
Are they, though?
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Warren »

thoreau wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:48
JD wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:42
armories and schools are designed for different purposes.
Are they, though?
Beat me to it.
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JD
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by JD »

thoreau wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:48
JD wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:42
armories and schools are designed for different purposes.
Are they, though?
Well, sure, Warren. One keeps uncontrollable mobs out, and one keeps uncontrollable mobs in.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Warren »

JD wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:52
thoreau wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:48
JD wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 13:42
armories and schools are designed for different purposes.
Are they, though?
Well, sure, Warren. One keeps uncontrollable mobs out, and one keeps uncontrollable mobs in.
I would say they both house dangerous things to keep them safe from the masses.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Kolohe »

Painboy wrote:
18 Oct 2019, 17:53
Wixenstyx wrote:
18 Oct 2019, 15:06
JD wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 12:00
Highway wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 20:31
Open-plan offices are a completely different crime against humanity. I'm hoping they're on their way out, because they're never going to show any of their supposed benefits.
They're not on their way out, though, because of the secret benefit that is the real driver: they're cheap. All that crap about cooperation and serendipity is just a stalking horse for the fact that it's real cheap to set up an open-plan office.

My bosses designed our SCHOOL around this model. Our classrooms have walls, but they are all shared spaces and facilities. We can put up no anchor charts, none of our supplies or equipment can be secured. We have to cart everything we use in backpacks or on media carts. We're a MIDDLE SCHOOL.

What kills me is that they based our design off of Cortex, which is a local business incubator. Everything there is painted a different shade of color, because it's so New and Funky and Millennial and all... so we did the same thing here. I don't think it occurred to them that the whole point of Cortex is that it's a transient space, providing business needs on a TEMPORARY basis, so they can get on their feet and move the hell out into a more workable environment. It's great for what it is, but it makes a terrible design for a middle school. I am sure it WAS cheaper, but the faculty absolutely hates it.
What's old is new. My elementary and middle school was an open concept. I think it was built in the 60s or 70s. Kind of brutalist, it looked like a moonbase from the outside. It was made of concrete formed in adjoining hexagons. There were almost no interior walls and it had 20 foot ceilings. It was obvious the teachers hated it because if one class got loud (which was often) you wouldn't be able to hear anything in the adjoining areas. It also got cold as hell sometimes because all the heat stayed up above the class areas and it was too costly for them to keep it cranked up to compensate (the concrete walls didn't help).

Over time they bit by bit added more and more interior walls and doors as I moved up in grades. Eventually I think they bulldozed it and put up a new building.
Same thing with my elementary school. Originally built in the 1940s with traditional classrooms, then an addition in the 60s or 70s had most of the new space as some sort of open concept. By the time I was there in the early 80s, the open spaces had been partitioned with bookcases and large bulletin board stands. Nowadays, all those partitions have been replaced by permanent walls.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

When I moved from one elementary school after 4th grade to a newer school, I was a bit surprised even then at the "open learning" layout. I think they called it a "learning resource center" instead of a library because, of course. I like "old school" academic libraries with open stacks, but apparently they're getting rarer and rarer everywhere.

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 15:35
When I moved from one elementary school after 4th grade to a newer school, I was a bit surprised even then at the "open learning" layout. I think they called it a "learning resource center" instead of a library because, of course. I like "old school" academic libraries with open stacks, but apparently they're getting rarer and rarer everywhere.
I use to hang out in libraries like alcoholics hang out in bars. But who needs a library when I've got the internet?
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Warren wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 15:43
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 15:35
When I moved from one elementary school after 4th grade to a newer school, I was a bit surprised even then at the "open learning" layout. I think they called it a "learning resource center" instead of a library because, of course. I like "old school" academic libraries with open stacks, but apparently they're getting rarer and rarer everywhere.
I use to hang out in libraries like alcoholics hang out in bars. But who needs a library when I've got the internet?
A friend on FB posted just a few days ago an admiring picture of a library card catalog and I thought to myself "Is she crazy? That was a huge pain in the ass compared with modern research tools." I would never want to go back to the days when foraging through dusty stacks of all-too-often misfiled books and journals was the only way to do research.

That said, it all depends upon what sort of research in what field one is studying. In the early days of the transition from books to databases, it was next to impossible to get young law students and lawyers that they could not depend solely on whatever they dug up on Westlaw. But I liked to roam purposelessly around libraries just to see what I'd stumble onto and I sort of miss that. And there are archives that haven't been digitized that I wish I did have access to but never will.

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 15:59
Warren wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 15:43
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
23 Oct 2019, 15:35
When I moved from one elementary school after 4th grade to a newer school, I was a bit surprised even then at the "open learning" layout. I think they called it a "learning resource center" instead of a library because, of course. I like "old school" academic libraries with open stacks, but apparently they're getting rarer and rarer everywhere.
I use to hang out in libraries like alcoholics hang out in bars. But who needs a library when I've got the internet?
A friend on FB posted just a few days ago an admiring picture of a library card catalog and I thought to myself "Is she crazy? That was a huge pain in the ass compared with modern research tools." I would never want to go back to the days when foraging through dusty stacks of all-too-often misfiled books and journals was the only way to do research.

That said, it all depends upon what sort of research in what field one is studying. In the early days of the transition from books to databases, it was next to impossible to get young law students and lawyers that they could not depend solely on whatever they dug up on Westlaw. But I liked to roam purposelessly around libraries just to see what I'd stumble onto and I sort of miss that. And there are archives that haven't been digitized that I wish I did have access to but never will.
I feel you. I'm sure I mentioned before how confident I was that my library-fu would be a skill that would serve me the rest of my life.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau »

What is so offensive about the Peloton bike ad? It's an ad about attractive, comfortable people buying an expensive piece of exercise equipment. Is this something new?
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by JD »

thoreau wrote:
06 Dec 2019, 11:34
What is so offensive about the Peloton bike ad? It's an ad about attractive, comfortable people buying an expensive piece of exercise equipment. Is this something new?
As far as I can tell it's mostly EVERYTHING MUST BE OUTRAGE ALL THE TIME OR IT'S NOT WORTH MENTIONING.
Man buys exercise equipment for woman = women's value centers entirely around their fitness and appearance
She thanks him for it = she is a craven submissive who buys into the patriarchy

I did think the comment about "chronicling a 116-lb woman's journey to becoming a 112-lb woman" was pretty funny though.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Hugh Akston »

I mean there's a lot of takes out there about the ad. I haven't seen any that express offense. I found it funny that her vlogging looked like she was being held hostage by a stationary bike (which, considering the cost of a Peloton, might not be far off).
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Aresen »

I've seen the ads for Peleton and clicked through as soon as possible.

The only question I had is why the f**k do they think I might want one?
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Aresen wrote:
06 Dec 2019, 14:17
I've seen the ads for Peleton and clicked through as soon as possible.

The only question I had is why the f**k do they think I might want one?
To begin your journey to becoming a 112-lb woman?

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Hugh Akston »

"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Mo »

thoreau wrote:What is so offensive about the Peloton bike ad? It's an ad about attractive, comfortable people buying an expensive piece of exercise equipment. Is this something new?
Never surprise a woman with exercise/diet stuff unless it has already been expressly requested previously.
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