I just don't get it

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dhex
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by dhex » 13 Jul 2017, 14:23

it is the most pure sport.
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lunchstealer
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by lunchstealer » 13 Jul 2017, 14:53

The most pure sport is straight line racing. You start at the same time, and whoever gets to the end fastest wins. The rules are simple. Start from the right place. Don't leave before the right time. Don't fuck with the other guy. First guy to the other place without breaking the above rules is the winner.

With boxing, there are thousands of rules, with rounds and off limits areas and judges and decisions and... beating the living fuck out of someone until their brain stops working. That's a world of WTF.

Of course it doesn't help that my martial art is fencing, which... soppressata and pomodoros all the way down.
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dhex
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by dhex » 13 Jul 2017, 17:10

the most pure sport is that which pits one against another in the closest approximation of murder. so nascar, then boxing...
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fyodor
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by fyodor » 13 Jul 2017, 18:03

dhex wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 17:10
the most pure sport is that which pits one against another in the closest approximation of murder. so nascar, then boxing...
Cause we're too squeamish for gladiators and Death Race 2000.
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Warren
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Warren » 13 Jul 2017, 19:39

lunchstealer wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 14:53
The most pure sport is straight line racing. You start at the same time, and whoever gets to the end fastest wins. The rules are simple. Start from the right place. Don't leave before the right time. Don't fuck with the other guy. First guy to the other place without breaking the above rules is the winner.

With boxing, there are thousands of rules, with rounds and off limits areas and judges and decisions and... beating the living fuck out of someone until their brain stops working. That's a world of WTF.
Not to mention thoroughly corrupted. That's why I won't watch main events. I use to watch the Wednesday night fights on cable back in the day. Lower card fights. Also, the lower the weight the better. Three round flyweight fights were just a blur of punches.

Another thing is the gloves. Gloves protect the bones in the hands and face, but add mass so as to increase the damage to the brain.
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 13 Jul 2017, 20:17

dhex wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 17:10
the most pure sport is that which pits one against another in the closest approximation of murder. so nascar, then boxing...
MMA is a much closer approximation of murder than boxing.

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by JasonL » 13 Jul 2017, 21:03

Corruption and lack of unification destroyed boxing. Canelo- Golovkin 3 years ago would have been one of the great modern era matchups. Nobody made it happen.

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dhex
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by dhex » 13 Jul 2017, 21:43

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 20:17
dhex wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 17:10
the most pure sport is that which pits one against another in the closest approximation of murder. so nascar, then boxing...
MMA is a much closer approximation of murder than boxing.
I'd argue it's Hella safer. American heavyweight boxing focuses so much on head strikes with heavy gloves. I'd much rather be choked out than knocked out, having experienced both in sparring and competitive contexts.
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JasonL
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by JasonL » 13 Jul 2017, 21:57

The worst helpless in all of fighting sports to me is being trapped in a Thai clench you can't escape. A mount or someone getting your back is a submission. A clench may be shots to the liver until you can't stand and they can hold you up.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 13 Jul 2017, 22:06

dhex wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 21:43
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 20:17
dhex wrote:
13 Jul 2017, 17:10
the most pure sport is that which pits one against another in the closest approximation of murder. so nascar, then boxing...
MMA is a much closer approximation of murder than boxing.
I'd argue it's Hella safer. American heavyweight boxing focuses so much on head strikes with heavy gloves. I'd much rather be choked out than knocked out, having experienced both in sparring and competitive contexts.
I thought you mean like an actual fight where you are trying to murder someone, not a game where you bang your head against a wall until you die.

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Dangerman » 14 Jul 2017, 11:10

Heavy gloves mean you can hit harder without damaging your hands. I don't know if the extra mass actually makes a big difference, in my opinion the velocity of the hit is more important for boxing or MMA striking.

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Mo
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Mo » 14 Jul 2017, 11:41

P=M*V, yo. Getting hit by a twig going 40 mph hurts a lot less than getting hit by a 2x4 going 20 mph.
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 14 Jul 2017, 12:37

Dangerman wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 11:10
Heavy gloves mean you can hit harder without damaging your hands. I don't know if the extra mass actually makes a big difference, in my opinion the velocity of the hit is more important for boxing or MMA striking.
Yes, so it's not like an actual fight.

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dhex
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by dhex » 14 Jul 2017, 13:00

That's what makes it more like murder.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Dangerman » 14 Jul 2017, 13:15

Mo wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 11:41
P=M*V, yo. Getting hit by a twig going 40 mph hurts a lot less than getting hit by a 2x4 going 20 mph.
Which is easier to avoid?

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Jul 2017, 13:48

Mo wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 11:41
P=M*V, yo. Getting hit by a twig going 40 mph hurts a lot less than getting hit by a 2x4 going 20 mph.

Yeah, but Ek = mv2 so there's a sweet spot. No idea where heavy gloves fit on that continuum.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by JasonL » 14 Jul 2017, 13:56

Momentum creates displacement of head upon impact which has a large effect on the ko response and consequently CTE. Big glove moving slower gets more brain rattle. Energy at lower mass creates penetrating power that breaks things without as much displacement. Light gloves with fast hands gets you broken jaws and maybe even ribs when you drive your punches with high acceleration.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Eric the .5b » 14 Jul 2017, 14:00

I think the key numbers will be incidence of actual death. And more boxers than MMAers die.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Taktix® » 14 Jul 2017, 14:08

Re: the charger electrocution: perhaps she ordered a substandard one on Amazon or Ebay or something? There are periodic recalls for all sorts of foreign-made products (and domestic ones too, of course, but I'd wager a dangerously-defective item like that would be more likely to have been produced in China)...
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Highway » 14 Jul 2017, 14:16

Taktix® wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 14:08
Re: the charger electrocution: perhaps she ordered a substandard one on Amazon or Ebay or something? There are periodic recalls for all sorts of foreign-made products (and domestic ones too, of course, but I'd wager a dangerously-defective item like that would be more likely to have been produced in China)...
Or they just have instructions that say "Don't plug anything in the USB port when plugged into mains power..."
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Dangerman » 14 Jul 2017, 14:37

re: boxing

If your jaw is broken by a punch, it's safe to say that there was brain rattle. I'd posit (completely unsupported) that heavy gloves mean that a person can stand there and take more, heavier blows before pain becomes an issue because you are reducing structural damage in favor of soft tissue damage.

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Warren » 14 Jul 2017, 15:44

Dangerman wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 14:37
re: boxing

If your jaw is broken by a punch, it's safe to say that there was brain rattle.
Nope. Your jaw is the crumple zone protecting your brain in that case. Padding the hand saves the jaw and rattles the brain.
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau » 14 Jul 2017, 15:53

Citation needed.

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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Dangerman » 14 Jul 2017, 15:55

Warren wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 15:44
Dangerman wrote:
14 Jul 2017, 14:37
re: boxing

If your jaw is broken by a punch, it's safe to say that there was brain rattle.
Nope. Your jaw is the crumple zone protecting your brain in that case. Padding the hand saves the jaw and rattles the brain.
lol ok Warren.

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JasonL
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by JasonL » 14 Jul 2017, 16:40

In terms of training, this is the "how much follow through" question. The reason the button near tip of chin is the button is because hooking shots that connect there use the chin/jaw as a lever and torque the head around violently in rotational displacement. So that's an optimal shot that a precision striker can hit and get a ko without looking like they are throwing hard. See anderson silva for examples of this. If your shot is not that clean or precise, there's this question about is it better to optimize acceleration into target and recover your hands to reload or is it better to throw power with some amount of follow through with the intent of creating more displacement of the head every time you hit. Thai striking and boxing generally allow for some follow through. You shorten up your wind up and fire from compact hand position but you let a hook drift through the target pretty far rather than trying to do the 1" past the surface of the target thing. Muay Thai is very focused on this in kicks which all swing through, elbows which swing through and punches which swing through.

Say your contact point is the hinge of the jaw rather than the chin. The amount of displacement of the head from a shot has to do with the mass and follow through of the glove/hand/ body weight transfer system. Short fast hands will sting and cause swelling and may break something but you have to really go after it to get the ko response if you aren't going to follow through to shove the head around. Similarly the peppering jab isn't the one that messes up equilibrium. The stiff one that snaps the head back as you slide into it does that. There's a reason heavyweights with lower acceleration but bigger mass get more knockouts than lighter weight classes.

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