I just don't get it

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Aresen
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Aresen » 27 Aug 2018, 18:11

Jennifer wrote:
27 Aug 2018, 18:04
I almost posted this in the orange president thread, but I daresay it works better in this one: I don't get why Trump has been so unbelievably petty about lowering the flag for McCain. For far longer than I've been alive, it's been bog-standard bipartisan courtesy that when someone like him dies, lower the US flags for awhile to show respect and yadda yadda. (Yes, you can make a "that's hypocritical" argument, but a certain level of hypocrisy and polite dissembling is necessary to keep the gears of civilization greased.) Specifically what I don't understand about Trump's mindset is, it costs him nothing to lower the flag, and he GAINS nothing by refusing to do so (until the American Legion and others finally convinced him of it) -- seriously, what the fuck is he thinking? Everything he does, he does because he expects to personally benefit by it somehow -- what was the benefit he hoped to get by being so petty here?
It is petty, sandlot bully stuff. Even the most cold-hearted pol knows you have to play to the base (and I think there was a lot of support for 'Bomb-bomb-bomb-Iran' McCain in Trump's base.) This is just stupid.

FWIW, I have seen more convincing condolence messages from Canadian politicians over McCain's death than what Trump tweeted.
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thoreau
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2018, 18:22

Eh, McCain has never been entirely trusted by the GOP base, not since 2000. He ran against W. (who seemed to get some real trust from many evangelicals) and appealed to Democrats and independents, in the hopes that they would cross over in primaries. Being in a purity spiral means that the GOP base cares about these things more than McCain's party label and POW status.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Jennifer
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Jennifer » 27 Aug 2018, 18:33

Aresen wrote:
27 Aug 2018, 18:11
Jennifer wrote:
27 Aug 2018, 18:04
I almost posted this in the orange president thread, but I daresay it works better in this one: I don't get why Trump has been so unbelievably petty about lowering the flag for McCain. For far longer than I've been alive, it's been bog-standard bipartisan courtesy that when someone like him dies, lower the US flags for awhile to show respect and yadda yadda. (Yes, you can make a "that's hypocritical" argument, but a certain level of hypocrisy and polite dissembling is necessary to keep the gears of civilization greased.) Specifically what I don't understand about Trump's mindset is, it costs him nothing to lower the flag, and he GAINS nothing by refusing to do so (until the American Legion and others finally convinced him of it) -- seriously, what the fuck is he thinking? Everything he does, he does because he expects to personally benefit by it somehow -- what was the benefit he hoped to get by being so petty here?
It is petty, sandlot bully stuff. Even the most cold-hearted pol knows you have to play to the base (and I think there was a lot of support for 'Bomb-bomb-bomb-Iran' McCain in Trump's base.) This is just stupid.

FWIW, I have seen more convincing condolence messages from Canadian politicians over McCain's death than what Trump tweeted.
I know it's stupid, but the level of stupidity -- and the pointlessness of it -- is what baffles me. I'm thinking back to when I was in, like, middle school or the higher elementary grades: academically I was "advanced for my age," but socially and emotionally I was arguably below par (in my defense, my mother was a spectacularly shitty role model, where "teaching social graces to impressionable kids" was concerned) -- but for all my undoubtedly immature traits, I at least knew enough to TRY to "act like a grownup" in certain situations. Like, for ordinary Sunday church services I'd be fidgety and bored, but on those Sundays when I was assigned to be the "acolyte" (minister's assistant -- lighting and extinguishing the alter candles, passing out and collecting offering plates and similar tasks), on THOSE days I made sure to behave "properly." Or -- again at church -- on those other Sundays when I didn't have to attend the sermon because I was instead put on "nursery duty" (helping to babysit the preschool kids who were far too young for the adult service) -- again, even as a 10 or 11-year-old I knew that when I was helping to babysit little kids I had to act "like a grownup" in that instance.

Granted, I'm sure any actual adult who observed me in such situations would've been very amused by some of my attempts at "grown-upness" -- but at least I was trying, and knew enough to try. And if my 10 to 12-year old self were somehow made to change places with President Trump ... yeah, I'm sure young me would've been just as clueless about economics and the like -- but I can say with absolute certainty that I'd've been orders of magnitude better than Trump at the diplomatic stuff. Because at least I understood such pathetically easy basics as "At least pretend to be sad when someone dies" and "If you're the president of the United States, comedians are going to make fun of you and you ought to accept this and NOT publicly get mad at them."

EDIT: typos
Last edited by Jennifer on 27 Aug 2018, 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Jennifer
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Jennifer » 27 Aug 2018, 18:36

thoreau wrote:
27 Aug 2018, 18:22
Eh, McCain has never been entirely trusted by the GOP base, not since 2000. He ran against W. (who seemed to get some real trust from many evangelicals) and appealed to Democrats and independents, in the hopes that they would cross over in primaries. Being in a purity spiral means that the GOP base cares about these things more than McCain's party label and POW status.
More than likely, But IMO, that only shifts my question a bit -- from "WTF is up with Trump" to "WTF is up with the GOP as a whole?" But then, I've been facepalming over that question for years. That party is rotten far beyond the standard level of rot and corruption you'd expect from an entrenched American political party. When they can't even be bothered to explicitly condemn literal swastika-waving Nazis seventy-some years after World War Two....
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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thoreau
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2018, 18:37

Trump is a bully who has gathered a mob around him. When he trash-talks an enemy, the mob will rally to him, not the enemy.

I don't normally argue that everything that happens must be rational, but I think that what Trump is doing will work because it's all a symptom of a much deeper disease. Trump didn't create any of this, but he understands the rot much better than just about anyone else. That's why he's dangerous.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Jennifer
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Jennifer » 27 Aug 2018, 18:40

thoreau wrote:
27 Aug 2018, 18:37
Trump is a bully who has gathered a mob around him. When he trash-talks an enemy, the mob will rally to him, not the enemy.

I don't normally argue that everything that happens must be rational, but I think that what Trump is doing will work because it's all a symptom of a much deeper disease. Trump didn't create any of this, but he understands the rot much better than just about anyone else. That's why he's dangerous.
[Sigh] Yeah, especially given that today's Republicans are statistically far more likely to believe "If it's a legitimate political problem, the body politic has ways of shutting the whole thing down. Nothing to worry about or see here."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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thoreau
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2018, 18:43

If you want to know what happened to the GOP, read Rick Perlstein's books. They stop in 1976, but they still explain a lot. The seeds were planted, and over time the GOP shifted from being the elites who appealed to the rubes to being the rubes that the elites had appealed to. And the whole way along, everyone felt some duty to pretend that there's parity between the two parties, that the GOP was and is a serious institution. Journalists played "both sides" games. So nobody could admit what was really going on, which was that one of our two major parties had become largely a plaything for crackpots.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Eric the .5b
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Eric the .5b » 27 Aug 2018, 18:45

Ellie wrote:
27 Aug 2018, 15:30
WARNING WARNING WARNING EXTREMELY NSFW

This was an ad on an, um, adult site I was browsing. How is this doing it for anyone, anywhere, EVER?

http://ads-a.juicyads.com/ads//user4239 ... 178689.gif
There were people who got off to Tijuana Bibles (Wikipedia link) back in the day. Some people really just need the broad strokes of an erotic depiction, no pun intended.

There's hot art in every medium out there, but the difficulty of making good depictions of human forms that don't hit the uncanny valley and the wide accessibility of CGI art software (including free programs) means Sturgeon's Law does overtime work for "Poser art" in general, much less porn. There are so many old SF paperbacks that have horrible Poser art ebook covers,, now, since the old cover art rights reverted back to the artist. If I ever self-publish something, it will damn well have a bad Photoshop cover, not a bad Poser cover...

Hell, I was thinking of making a webcomic in CGI years back, because I wanted to continue a story that I was really tired of doing in Strip Generator (which is awkward as Hell for, like, backgrounds), and it turned out to be even more work for even more awkward-looking results. And that was with deliberately cartoony-looking characters to minimize uncanny valley issues. Even well-done CGI comics like Crimson Dark (where the guy designs all his own sets and set dressing and character models) range from decent to dodgy if they keep to anything like multiple-days-a-week updates.

Good art is hard.
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Jennifer
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Jennifer » 27 Aug 2018, 19:10

I read Perlstein's Nixonland back when it was relatively new (unfortunately, I no longer have my copy as it was among the books I discarded during one of my last two moves). I did indeed learn a lot of horrifying things I hadn't known before (or rather, learned lots of horrifying details regarding things I already knew -- yeah, I knew "Americans dd some bad shit in Vietnam," but didn't know many specifics about the bad things we did). Don't recall the GOP-specific details now, but yeah -- Nixon's GOP was arguably bad enough by 1976, before Reagan's Republicans made their devil's bargain with the religious right.

EDIT: Typos. Also a random complaint: I think my keyboard's s-key is stuck, because this is the second time in the past few minutes I had to edit a post specifically to add missing esses to certain words.
Last edited by Jennifer on 27 Aug 2018, 19:22, edited 1 time in total.
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thoreau
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2018, 19:13

It wasn't just a bargain with the religious right. It was a bargain with a lot of people: Paranoid nationalists, people who believe in crackpot economic ideas whereby military spending doesn't count as government spending and tax cuts ALWAYS increase revenue, and a whole lot of other people. Those crazies were in the tent before Reagan cut his deals with religious people who knew how to look respectable on TV.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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thoreau
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2018, 19:15

And for several decades those people were direct-mail fundraising targets.

Then give them their own news channel, so they never have to hear anything at odds with what they read in those fundraising letters about Nancy Pelosi's Secret Plan To Make Us A Communist Country, and Trump is the inevitable result.

He's a bloated orange pustule on a fevered body politic.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Kolohe
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Kolohe » 27 Aug 2018, 19:37

Invisible bridge is kinda the Godfather 3 of the Perlstein trilogy. There's a lot more going on than cranks and wedge issues when you eventually get a 49 state electoral college near sweep.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2018, 19:40

Kolohe wrote:
27 Aug 2018, 19:37
Invisible bridge is kinda the Godfather 3 of the Perlstein trilogy. There's a lot more going on than cranks and wedge issues when you eventually get a 49 state electoral college near sweep.
True. Reagan had real strengths and Democrats had real failings.

But cranks and wedge issues seem to have stuck around and kept the decay going. Seeing where those things come from is important.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Hugh Akston
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Hugh Akston » 07 Sep 2018, 21:43

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Jennifer
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Re: I just don't get it

Post by Jennifer » 21 Sep 2018, 20:01

I remember watching some documentary -- either "Life After People" or a knockoff thereof -- talking about what would happen to the earth if every human vanished right now (without a nuclear war or any other earth-damaging causes). At one point, the documentary said something to the effect of how, of all the animals on the earth, the only three species guaranteed to go extinct without us are head, body and pubic lice, because those three bugs are so hyper-specialized, they can only live on human beings (and only on certain specific parts of human beings).

Here's what I don't get: why/how is pubic lice still a thing, at least in modern first-world nations? Nobody who has lice likes them (I would assume), everybody who gets lice tries to get rid of them. Still, with body and head lice, it would be quite easy for them to jump from person to person: you could catch that simply by, say, sitting in a plush chair whose previous occupant had lice. Or being next to a lousy person in a dense crowd--you bump into him or vice-versa, and a couple of lice jump ship from him to you. So even with everyone trying to stamp those little buggers out, I can see why they're still a problem, because under the right [wrong] circumstances, it's very easy for them to spread from person to person. There's apparently a body lice problem in our kiddie concentration camps right now.

But pubic lice are a LOT harder to spread: you can get it by bumping uglies with someone lousy, and (presumably) by sleeping in the same bed or on the same unwashed bed sheets as someone who has them. Or by sharing underwear or similar things. But it's definitely not a casual-contact-spread thing, the way head and body lice are. So: they're not something which can be spread through casual contact, they can't survive off-body very long, and pretty much anyone who got an infestation would try to get rid of it right way. Seems like this problem should be MUCH rarer than it is.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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