Marriage is Totally Gay

User avatar
fyodor
Posts: 6832
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:18

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by fyodor » 14 Nov 2016, 18:44

From a legal standpoint, is there any reason that gay marriage should be a settled legal issue but Roe not?










Didn't think so.
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24228
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Warren » 14 Nov 2016, 20:13

fyodor wrote:From a legal standpoint, is there any reason that gay marriage should be a settled legal issue but Roe not?










Didn't think so.
IANAL but to my mind there certainly is.
For one thing Hodges is only a year old. The SCOTUS isn't going to overturn something they just ruled on. The Court is super cereal about that. Roe OTOH is over forty years old and due to be revisited sometime in the next couple of decades.
Further, Hodges rests upon the constitutionally enumerated equal protection clause, while Roe rests upon an ethereal right to privacy detected in the aroma of the constitutional vapors. Yet still, it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Rachel
Posts: 2604
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 19:50

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Rachel » 14 Nov 2016, 20:24

Plus Roe is just really poorly written. It's not good law. It never has been.
No lie I'm fucking tired of glorified false histories-JasonL

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22820
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Mo » 14 Nov 2016, 23:09

Warren wrote:it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
That's stealing a base
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24228
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Warren » 14 Nov 2016, 23:37

Mo wrote:
Warren wrote:it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
That's stealing a base
It is, but there are sitting lawyers and judges even that are of that mind.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17886
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 14 Nov 2016, 23:44

Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
Warren wrote:it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
That's stealing a base
It is, but there are sitting lawyers and judges even that are of that mind.
I know I'm going to regret asking this but, aside from me at the moment, what is a sitting lawyer?

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24228
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Warren » 15 Nov 2016, 01:05

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
Warren wrote:it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
That's stealing a base
It is, but there are sitting lawyers and judges even that are of that mind.
I know I'm going to regret asking this but, aside from me at the moment, what is a sitting lawyer?
It's a manifestation of late night editing.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17886
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 15 Nov 2016, 01:35

Warren wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
Warren wrote:it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
That's stealing a base
It is, but there are sitting lawyers and judges even that are of that mind.
I know I'm going to regret asking this but, aside from me at the moment, what is a sitting lawyer?
It's a manifestation of late night editing.
Fair enough. Been there, done that.

User avatar
fyodor
Posts: 6832
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:18

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by fyodor » 15 Nov 2016, 14:09

Warren wrote:
fyodor wrote:From a legal standpoint, is there any reason that gay marriage should be a settled legal issue but Roe not?










Didn't think so.
IANAL but to my mind there certainly is.
For one thing Hodges is only a year old. The SCOTUS isn't going to overturn something they just ruled on. The Court is super cereal about that. Roe OTOH is over forty years old and due to be revisited sometime in the next couple of decades.
Further, Hodges rests upon the constitutionally enumerated equal protection clause, while Roe rests upon an ethereal right to privacy detected in the aroma of the constitutional vapors. Yet still, it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
Perhaps. All that seems far more nuanced than what Trump seemed to be saying, but, eh, maybe that's what he really meant.
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22484
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Jennifer » 15 Nov 2016, 14:17

Regarding the idea "Don't worry about the Supreme Court; it won't overturn Obergefell or Roe because the court traditionally defers to earlier versions of itself" -- what if Trumpence court appointees show the same disregard for tradition as Trump himself?

"A man who insults the patriotism of a gold star family will never get elected." "Nor would a man who insults an American POW solely for having been captured." "Or one caught on videotape bragging of being a sexual predator." "Or one who sneers that a woman who annoyed him must've been menstruating at the time." "And definitely not a man who insults a reporter for having a physical disability." "Or one who says that a federal judge's non-white ancestry makes him inherently untrustworthy." "Besides, even if such a man were somehow elected, the other members of his own party would pitch a fit if he tried naming an open white supremacist as his chief strategist."

Every sentence in that last paragraph would've been considered self-evident conventional wisdom only a year or so ago. Every one has since been proven false. I don't know how much more of the old conventional wisdom still applies.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 8919
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by nicole » 15 Nov 2016, 15:33

Rachel wrote:Plus Roe is just really poorly written. It's not good law. It never has been.
Neither is Obergefell.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 17135
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Hugh Akston » 15 Nov 2016, 15:43

Jennifer wrote:Regarding the idea "Don't worry about the Supreme Court; it won't overturn Obergefell or Roe because the court traditionally defers to earlier versions of itself" -- what if Trumpence court appointees show the same disregard for tradition as Trump himself?
Which of the people on Trump's shortlist of candidates do you think is likely to do that?
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Inexplicably cockfighting monsters that live in your pants" ~Jadagul

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 13364
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Kolohe » 15 Nov 2016, 16:40

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
Warren wrote:it is in conflict with the due process clause in so far as the unborn citizen is being deprived of life.
That's stealing a base
It is, but there are sitting lawyers and judges even that are of that mind.
I know I'm going to regret asking this but, aside from me at the moment, what is a sitting lawyer?
Those that lack standing, duh.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Jake
Posts: 2573
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 18:38

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Jake » 16 Nov 2016, 12:07

Kolohe wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:I know I'm going to regret asking this but, aside from me at the moment, what is a sitting lawyer?
Those that lack standing, duh.
Image
"TIL that it's genetically impossible for whales to have evolved from leg-having ancestors, millions of scientists are signing a petition to stop the teaching of evolution and evolution isn't real because Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews. Alternately, I met a moron at the museum." -- TIO

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 8919
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by nicole » 07 Dec 2016, 16:01

https://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/ ... .jrzVKqj5j

tl;dr Christian legal defense firm now pursuing a preemptive strategy of helping business owners sue states before they get sued by gay couples
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22820
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Mo » 07 Dec 2016, 16:26

nicole wrote:https://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/ ... .jrzVKqj5j

tl;dr Christian legal defense firm now pursuing a preemptive strategy of helping business owners sue states before they get sued by gay couples
Uh, how does this not get thrown out? There's no harm here to sue over.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 22484
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Jennifer » 07 Dec 2016, 23:29

A video production company is attempting a similar suit.
The husband-and-wife owners of a Christian video and film production company, whose goal is to "glorify God through top-quality media production," have filed a federal lawsuit challenging a Minnesota law requiring them to provide services for same-sex weddings.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14341
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Aresen » 07 Dec 2016, 23:44

I could totally enjoy running a hoax advocacy group saying that every couple should be required to participate in a training course involving a variety of sex acts - gay, troilism, bdsm, etc - before a marriage license could be issued.

Most people would recognize it for a hoax, but I am willing to bet that at least a few Christian Conservatives would fall for it.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24228
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Warren » 08 Dec 2016, 10:58

Aresen wrote:I could totally enjoy running a hoax advocacy group saying that every couple should be required to participate in a training course involving a variety of sex acts - gay, troilism, bdsm, etc - before a marriage license could be issued.

Most people would recognize it for a hoax, but I am willing to bet that at least a few Christian Conservatives would fall for it.
No you fool! You will attract "people" that want to join your group in earnest. They will mutiny against you and it will no longer be a hoax.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14341
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Aresen » 08 Dec 2016, 11:55

Warren wrote:
Aresen wrote:I could totally enjoy running a hoax advocacy group saying that every couple should be required to participate in a training course involving a variety of sex acts - gay, troilism, bdsm, etc - before a marriage license could be issued.

Most people would recognize it for a hoax, but I am willing to bet that at least a few Christian Conservatives would fall for it.
No you fool! You will attract "people" that want to join your group in earnest. They will mutiny against you and it will no longer be a hoax.
I'd gerrymander the election process. (See the Electoral College thread.) Plus I'd up the ante: Put the course in schools as an option to gym class.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
the innominate one
Posts: 12356
Joined: 17 May 2011, 16:17
Location: hypertime continuum

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by the innominate one » 19 Sep 2017, 09:52

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/u ... riage.html

Maybe I'm just high on goofballs, but I have very little sympathy for the gay couple and a lot for the nutty Christian baker.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26117
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by thoreau » 19 Sep 2017, 10:07

The preferred libertarian approach to free association is not on the table in American law and policy. Accepting that, I still would like it if it were possible to carve out a space for his artistic expression, one that accepts current norms against discrimination but leaves room for the guy who wants to be selective about something so creative. It's one thing to say anyone can buy a cake from the display case and another thing to say anyone can get him to do a custom cake.

Thing is, I don't know if it's possible to carve out that exception while still leaving in place bars against most discrimination. So I don't have any opinion to offer on how the courts will have to rule here. But, yeah, I feel sympathy for the guy.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 12884
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Highway » 19 Sep 2017, 11:27

Yeah, it feels like a situation where this is not restitution, it's revenge. "He made us feel bad, so we'll show him." The law is a really heavy cudgel in this kind of situation. I'm pretty much with you, thoreau, in that it's almost like I don't want discrimination in normal service, but that it starts getting to squicky forcing when it's something that you have to commission.

Plus, then you get into a realm of what is satisfactory service. What if he takes the work, but intentionally does a shitty job on their cake? Is that unlawful discrimination? What if it's not shitty, but not as good as expected? Is there a line between where it's unlawful discrimination, and where it's 'just' "not caring"?
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24228
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Warren » 19 Sep 2017, 11:54

There should be an acknowledgement of imposition. What did they suffer for his refusal? Were they not able to get a cake anywhere else? Did they even try?
It should be a civil matter not a criminal one. Show damages.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

Dangerman
Posts: 6214
Joined: 07 May 2010, 12:26

Re: Marriage is Totally Gay

Post by Dangerman » 19 Sep 2017, 12:49

Is a photographer obligated to take photos of an orgy?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests