Private Money!

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Mo
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Mo » 26 Sep 2017, 10:41

Warren wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 09:36
Mo wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 09:18
Ah, in that case I agree and think that order of magnitude undersells it.
Over the next ten years I agree. However, in twenty years I don't think pure fiat is going to be a thing. Sovereign currency will need to be backed by crypto.
Only in the sense that blockchain will be running bank infrastructure and managing ledgers. No sovereign will give up control of their money supply.
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JasonL
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Re: Private Money!

Post by JasonL » 26 Sep 2017, 10:44

Agree. There is a view in the crypto world that all fiat is heading toward zero valuation but mild inflationary policy is pretty stable in advanced economies and I think that view is considerably overblown.

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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 26 Sep 2017, 11:02

Mo wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 10:41
Warren wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 09:36
Mo wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 09:18
Ah, in that case I agree and think that order of magnitude undersells it.
Over the next ten years I agree. However, in twenty years I don't think pure fiat is going to be a thing. Sovereign currency will need to be backed by crypto.
Only in the sense that blockchain will be running bank infrastructure and managing ledgers. No sovereign will give up control of their money supply.
They're going to have to. But not entirely.
JasonL wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 10:44
Agree. There is a view in the crypto world that all fiat is heading toward zero valuation but mild inflationary policy is pretty stable in advanced economies and I think that view is considerably overblown.
The problem with fiat is they can't keep the inflation mild. Look at the debt/GDP right now. It's 100%+ And that's just on actual treasury notes. Factor in pension and entitlement obligations, and does that scare the shit out of you? The piss out of you? Are you at least concerned? You know who isn't concerned in the least? Everybody that should be. Not Congress, not the FED, not even BOA. No one in the car is screaming WHOA WHOA as it speeds towards the edge of the cliff with our foot on the accelerator. Certainly not anyone behind the wheel or even in the front seat.

You could back the USD with a crypto that has mild inflation built into it. This is THE ONLY hope I can see for heading off complete economic collapse.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by JasonL » 26 Sep 2017, 11:16

I'm concerned about debt / GDP north of say 90%, but there is no evidence anywhere of a need for substantial inflationary policy. Taxes are low and can be raised. Retirement age adjustment on SSI or adjusting top end caps on FICA go pretty far on that phase of entitlement. Those sorts of things are what will constrain the problem.

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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 26 Sep 2017, 11:25

JasonL wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 11:16
I'm concerned about debt / GDP north of say 90%, but there is no evidence anywhere of a need for substantial inflationary policy. Taxes are low and can be raised. Retirement age adjustment on SSI or adjusting top end caps on FICA go pretty far on that phase of entitlement. Those sorts of things are what will constrain the problem.
20 years out is too long for a friendly bet or I'd propose one. Raising taxes exacerbates the problem by choking growth without increasing revenue past the first year. Your belief that those other things are politically possible shows an ignorance of history.

But hey, we've been kicking the can down the road for about a decade longer than I thought we could already. So wadda I know?
I know this, crypto really does provide a way out for the proles when their national currency goes hyperinflation. That's a game changer.
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Private Money!

Post by JasonL » 26 Sep 2017, 12:19

Adjustment of top end fica cap I think will happen. I don't think tax rates are at current levels a constraining factor on growth. I do think it is hard to effectively collect more than 20% of GDP no matter what you do and we are currently taxing about 17%, so I'm not talking mega increases.

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Re: Private Money!

Post by Dangerman » 26 Sep 2017, 12:39

I think a public blockchain, configured to remove anonymity, will be pretty useful as well, for reputation.

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Re: Private Money!

Post by Shem » 26 Sep 2017, 15:31

JasonL wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 12:19
Adjustment of top end fica cap I think will happen. I don't think tax rates are at current levels a constraining factor on growth.
I agree. If they were, the tax cuts of the past 20 years would have spurred growth in the economy, rather than not seeming to do much of anything either way.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by nicole » 26 Sep 2017, 16:10

Is "bitbug" a term yet? Or are people using something else?
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Re: Private Money!

Post by dbcooper » 26 Sep 2017, 18:52

Will be interesting to see if this launches as a cryptocurrency.
Japan’s big banks plan digital currency launch

J Coin designed to wean Japanese off heavy dependency on cash

September 26, 2017 12:53 am by Martin Arnold and Leo Lewis in Tokyo

Japanese banks plan to introduce a digital currency ready for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics as they respond to the threat from China’s Alibaba, which recently launched its mobile-phone payments service in the country.

A consortium of banks, led by Mizuho Financial Group and Japan Post Bank, has won support from the country’s central bank and financial regulator to launch the J Coin, an electronic currency to pay for goods and transfer money using smartphones.

The J Coin would be convertible into yen on a one-to-one basis, operating via a smartphone app and using QR codes to be scanned in stores. In return for providing the service for free, the banks would benefit by collecting more data on consumer spending patterns.

“I think this electronic money is quite ahead of [credit and debit] cards, because when you use the cards the shops pay a certain fee,” Yasuhiro Sato, president and chief executive officer of Mizuho Financial Group, told the Financial Times.

Meanwhile, MUFG has been developing a blockchain-based alternative called the MUFG coin. However, there have been recent discussions between the top banks about the possibility of MUFG joining the J Coin initiative.

“We are aware of the issue or concept [of J Coin], however, we would like to refrain from answering,” said MUFG when asked about the talks. “We want MUFG coin’s results and know-how to be used across Japan, including by other banks, but have not decided on what concrete measures to take.”

Several big Japanese banks have been lobbying their government and regulators about the danger of Alibaba’s Alipay service being launched recently in several cities including Tokyo, which they argue will allow data on Japanese consumers to be sent to China, according to a presentation seen by the FT.

Their plan is to showcase Japan’s fintech capability at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, when hundreds of thousands of tourists are expected to visit Japan. Mr Sato added that it would work best if all banks worked together on the project. “We shouldn’t grab the idea for ourselves, we should have open innovation,” he said.

The J Coin is designed to wean the Japanese off their heavy dependency on cash, which accounts for 70 per cent of all transactions by value. That is higher than any developed country, which have on average reduced cash utilisation to only 30 per cent.

“We like cash, because Japan is a very safety-conscious country,” said Mr Sato. “But cash is not so productive so we have to change the structure from cash to electronic money.”

The banks have privately estimated that the new system could add an extra ¥10bn to Japan’s economy by reducing the costs of handling cash and cutting settlement fees for retailers and consumers. They plan to unveil their J Coin plan in the next few days.

Hironori Kamezawa, chief information officer of MUFG, told last week’s FinSum conference in Tokyo that Japanese banks were getting serious about the threat of digital disruption.

“We have a strong sense of urgency and a sense of crisis in the banks of the situation facing us,” said Mr Kamezawa, adding that the MUFG coin was being tested by 1,600 of the bank’s senior staff. “I use it myself to settle the bill when I go out for a drinks party.”
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 09 Oct 2017, 17:11

BitCoin Cash looks like it's taking on water. I wish I sold more when it popped and hadn't bought it back on the way back down. I just sold half my BCH to realize something out of it. Which will likely ensure it will start going back up again. I keep telling myself this is just a bonus anyway.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by dbcooper » 16 Oct 2017, 10:05

This blockchain gambling system is pretty interesting:

https://funfair.io/

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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 16 Oct 2017, 10:32

dbcooper wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 10:05
This blockchain gambling system is pretty interesting:

https://funfair.io/

One of the co-founders helped design the Super FX chip used in Star Fox for the Super NES.
That was interesting. At first I was like, BTC casinos have been around for years, but they're doing something bigger. They're using their own CryptoCurrency, but if I read the site right their also using Ethereum.

I didn't notice ETH till just this year. I didn't buy into it in a big way, just a couple to play with. I think it has promise. I won't touch Ripple, which I consider a poser since it's not actually a CC. I like the anonymity Monero, but haven't bought in, don't know if it will catch on. I know just about fuck all about the hundreds of other CCs
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Re: Private Money!

Post by dbcooper » 16 Oct 2017, 10:40

Warren wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 10:32
dbcooper wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 10:05
This blockchain gambling system is pretty interesting:

https://funfair.io/

One of the co-founders helped design the Super FX chip used in Star Fox for the Super NES.
That was interesting. At first I was like, BTC casinos have been around for years, but they're doing something bigger. They're using their own CryptoCurrency, but if I read the site right their also using Ethereum.

I didn't notice ETH till just this year. I didn't buy into it in a big way, just a couple to play with. I think it has promise. I won't touch Ripple, which I consider a poser since it's not actually a CC. I like the anonymity Monero, but haven't bought in, don't know if it will catch on. I know just about fuck all about the hundreds of other CCs
I think that their token (or cryptocurrency) is an ERC20 Ethereum token. i.e. separate cryptocurrency that is compliant with ethereum's protocols and wallets, so that it can be used on the ethereum blockchain. That means that their games can be run as ethereum DAPPs (or smart contracts) that are verified by the ethereum blockchain.

The stuff about how they try to minimise transaction costs etc is pretty cool.

Blockchain apps could be pretty amazing.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 16 Oct 2017, 10:46

dbcooper wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 10:40
I think that their token (or cryptocurrency) is an ERC20 Ethereum token. i.e. separate cryptocurrency that is compliant with ethereum's protocols and wallets, so that it can be used on the ethereum blockchain. That means that their games can be run as ethereum DAPPs (or smart contracts) that are verified by the ethereum blockchain.
That makes sense.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by dbcooper » 16 Oct 2017, 11:16

I won't touch Ripple, which I consider a poser since it's not actually a CC
Ripple is backed by a ton of retail banks, but is it actually used by them for to settle payments?
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 16 Oct 2017, 12:30

dbcooper wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 11:16
I won't touch Ripple, which I consider a poser since it's not actually a CC
Ripple is backed by a ton of retail banks, but is it actually used by them for to settle payments?
Last I heard, no. It's suppose to be good for more general information consensus (account balances e.g.) but I don't know that it's actually being used for anything even in beta. At any rate it is the banks own thing and they own it.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 17 Oct 2017, 10:35

UGH! My exchange is going to disallow US customers. Getting set up on a new exchange has been the most persistently annoying thing about dealing with crypto. This is like the forth or fifth time I've had to do it. It's always the government's doing one way or another.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Mo » 19 Oct 2017, 22:10

dbcooper wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 11:16
I won't touch Ripple, which I consider a poser since it's not actually a CC
Ripple is backed by a ton of retail banks, but is it actually used by them for to settle payments?
I just came back from Sibos. From the scuttlebutt I heard, they use Earthport for settlement, which means that cash settlement is handle by correspondent banking after netting out.
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dbcooper
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Re: Private Money!

Post by dbcooper » 19 Oct 2017, 22:17

Mo wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 22:10
dbcooper wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 11:16
I won't touch Ripple, which I consider a poser since it's not actually a CC
Ripple is backed by a ton of retail banks, but is it actually used by them for to settle payments?
I just came back from Sibos. From the scuttlebutt I heard, they use Earthport for settlement, which means that cash settlement is handle by correspondent banking after netting out.
Cheers dude!
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Mo
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Mo » 19 Oct 2017, 22:21

I also heard folks talking about using blockchain for trade financing, which makes a lot of sense, because you don't have TPS issues that blockchain has, the current system sucks (largely manual) and it's high cost. Payments is a worse fit.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Private Money!

Post by dbcooper » 19 Oct 2017, 22:30

Mo wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 22:21
I also heard folks talking about using blockchain for trade financing, which makes a lot of sense, because you don't have TPS issues that blockchain has, the current system sucks (largely manual) and it's high cost. Payments is a worse fit.
Yeah, there's a lot of work on that, and it's often coupled with "smart pallets"/IoT-Sensors.

Blockchain distribution tracking for pharma might be big, because of counterfeiting and serialisation/track and trace requirements from recent laws in the US (Drug Quality and Security Act) and EU (Falsified Medicines Directive).

The interesting part will be preserving commercial sales etc data privacy from blockchain data mining. Microsoft are really pushing this.
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 21 Oct 2017, 15:19

Mo wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 22:21
I also heard folks talking about using blockchain for trade financing, which makes a lot of sense, because you don't have TPS issues that blockchain has, the current system sucks (largely manual) and it's high cost. Payments is a worse fit.
No cover sheet?
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Mo » 21 Oct 2017, 21:47

Transactions per second
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Re: Private Money!

Post by Warren » 26 Oct 2017, 12:24

BitCoin Gold fizzled on the launch pad. I don't doubt that it was afflicted with genetic defects that caused it to be still born. But I do think centralization has become problematic for BtC.
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