When journalism goes bad

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Jennifer
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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JD wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 15:26
Jennifer wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 15:14 Expensive compared to pretty much every other form of meat commonly available at the time. IIRC, it wasn't until the 1960s that chicken (at least in America/First World countries) became more of a "common everyday" food rather than a special-occasion thing. (Also, today's chickens are far bigger and meatier than the chickens of yore, and thanks to artificial lighting and other modern developments the egg-layers can produce eggs pretty much year-round rather than shut down for winter, and so forth.
I don't remember if the article was posted here, but here's an interesting piece about when Bush and Gorbachev signed a trade deal and American chickens (particularly legs, which became known as "Bush's legs") became available in Russia:
"Each Bush leg was the size of a Soviet chicken," recalls Anya Ulinich, laughing. She is a writer in Brooklyn now, but in 1990 she was a teenager in Moscow. "Or at least it seemed sort of that way. It was like an elephant next to a Chihuahua."

While these days consumers may pay top dollar for a small, flavorful heritage breed, back then, the Soviet chicken stock was not a source of pride, Ulinich explains. "All these jokes were always made about the Soviet chicken — that it ran a marathon, or several. Or it got an award for being the longest-lived chicken. They were kind of scrawny and blue and dark."
I only learned about "Bush legs" on this forum a few years ago --- IIRC Kolohe said something about them? --- but the "devolution" of chicken from feast-food to cheap-food is something I picked up from various sources the past few years (especially researching a hacky list-sicle I did a few months back, on holiday/special-occasion food recipes from around the world, AND reading "The Little House Cookbook," containing recipes for pretty much every food and drink item mentioned anywhere in the Little House books.)

The Little House Cookbook IIRC is where I first encountered the (obvious in retrospect) observation that today, there's actually two different food-chicken flocks raised in the US: there are "meat chickens" and there are "egg-laying chickens" with no real overlap between the two, whereas in the old days people of course had just the one (much smaller) flock for everything.

And the typical chicken back then was MUCH smaller and scrawnier than what you will typically get today. (The LHC also mentioned --- repeatedly, and at length --- that today's chickens taste different from what Laura ate, not only due to radically different diets and lifestyles, but also because today's commercially farmed chickens generally aren't even the same breeds as what the old farmers had.)
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Hugh Akston
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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That's because you're eating the Chicken of Tomorrow.
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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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lunchstealer wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 15:54 I kinda feel like it's not fair to journalism to even apply that term to this shit sandwich, but this is almost joyously stupid in its constitutional understanding. Like the @BadLegalTakes guy's head would explode.

America Is Facing A Third Amendment Crisis
Yeah, but the fact that we're even vaguely sort of kind of close to a situation where the Third Amendment applies is, well, something. I mean, you can't fault people for trying to shoehorn the Third Amendment into this crisis when damn near every other amendment is being pissed on.

But I'm kind of surprised that they aren't just putting up the National Guard at Trump hotels, so that he can charge the government at inflated defense contractor rates.
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Highway
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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thoreau wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 16:20 But I'm kind of surprised that they aren't just putting up the National Guard at Trump hotels, so that he can charge the government at inflated defense contractor rates.
I would imagine that [most of] the states would want to avoid that whenever they can, and Cheeto can't just order them to stay there.
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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Highway wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 17:23Cheeto can't just order them to stay there.
Yet.
"saying 'socialism' where normies can hear it is wrapping a bunch of barbed wire around a bat, handing the bat to the GOP, and standing with your head in the strike zone."
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Jadagul
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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The story I've heard about the black people and fried chicken thing is that it comes in part from Birth of a Nation:
D.W. Griffith's seminal and supremely racist 1915 silent movie about the supposedly heroic founding of the Ku Klux Klan was a huge sensation when it debuted. One scene in the three-hor features a group of actors portraying shiftless black elected officials acting rowdy and crudely in a legislative hall. (The message to the audience: These are the dangers of letting blacks vote.) Some of the legislators are shown drinking. Others had their feet kicked up on their desks. And one of them was very ostentatiously eating fried chicken.

"That image really solidified the way white people thought of black people and fried chicken," Schmidt said.

Schmidt said that like watermelon, that other food that's been a mainstay in racist depictions of blacks, chicken was also a good vehicle for racism because of the way people eat it. (According to government stats, blacks are underrepresented among watermelon consumers.) "It's a food you eat with your hands, and therefore it's dirty," Schmidt said. "Table manners are a way of determining who is worthy of respect or not."
Except Schmidt says chickens were a cheap source of meat, which I'm pretty sure isn't true.
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Warren
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Jadagul wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 18:42 Except Schmidt says chickens were a cheap source of meat, which I'm pretty sure isn't true.
It is true. It's always been true. My father's family lived in a house with no running water and no electricity during the depression. There were times when they couldn't afford pigs, they seldom had cows, but they always had chickens, because they're cheap.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Jadagul wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 18:42 The story I've heard about the black people and fried chicken thing is that it comes in part from Birth of a Nation:
D.W. Griffith's seminal and supremely racist 1915 silent movie about the supposedly heroic founding of the Ku Klux Klan was a huge sensation when it debuted. One scene in the three-hor features a group of actors portraying shiftless black elected officials acting rowdy and crudely in a legislative hall. (The message to the audience: These are the dangers of letting blacks vote.) Some of the legislators are shown drinking. Others had their feet kicked up on their desks. And one of them was very ostentatiously eating fried chicken.

"That image really solidified the way white people thought of black people and fried chicken," Schmidt said.

Schmidt said that like watermelon, that other food that's been a mainstay in racist depictions of blacks, chicken was also a good vehicle for racism because of the way people eat it. (According to government stats, blacks are underrepresented among watermelon consumers.) "It's a food you eat with your hands, and therefore it's dirty," Schmidt said. "Table manners are a way of determining who is worthy of respect or not."
Except Schmidt says chickens were a cheap source of meat, which I'm pretty sure isn't true.
My wild ass theory is that the only time white people saw black people eating was probably at public events or special occasions like church functions where you want food that is flavorful but also easy to make at scale. Fried chicken and watermelon were probably an easy go to. Throw in the tradition of soul food which was heavy on fried stuff in general and it probably only furthered the perception.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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I think whether consciously or not eating with one's hands is a big factor. See also, ribs.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 21:12 I think whether consciously or not eating with one's hands is a big factor. See also, ribs.
How do ice cream cones affect your theory?
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Warren wrote: 06 Jun 2020, 03:17
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 21:12 I think whether consciously or not eating with one's hands is a big factor. See also, ribs.
How do ice cream cones affect your theory?
Your official state food is an early 20th century invention.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 06 Jun 2020, 11:29
Warren wrote: 06 Jun 2020, 03:17
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 21:12 I think whether consciously or not eating with one's hands is a big factor. See also, ribs.
How do ice cream cones affect your theory?
Your official state food is an early 20th century invention.
Uh huh. But you have to eat it with your hands. Are ice cream cones stereotypically black food? Or are you trying to suggest stereotypes were fixed in the 19th century?
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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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The ice cream cone is good, but it is also a type of utensil.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Warren wrote: 06 Jun 2020, 13:40
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 06 Jun 2020, 11:29
Warren wrote: 06 Jun 2020, 03:17
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 05 Jun 2020, 21:12 I think whether consciously or not eating with one's hands is a big factor. See also, ribs.
How do ice cream cones affect your theory?
Your official state food is an early 20th century invention.
Uh huh. But you have to eat it with your hands. Are ice cream cones stereotypically black food? Or are you trying to suggest stereotypes were fixed in the 19th century?
I'm saying that those who wish to promote or perpetuate negative stereotypes emphasize what they can use to that effect and ignore counterexamples. White people eat watermelon and fried chicken and bbq ribs with their fingers, too; but whether consciously or not, emphasizing black people eating food with their hands implies that they are less civilized than people who eat with flatware.

Someone mentioned "Birth of a Nation" (1915) as promoting or perpetuating the stereotype, but I suspect D.W. Griffith knew it was already a trope from minstrel shows, etc., so yes I suspect the stereotypes were fixed before the mass market emergence of ice cream cones.

When I was in 11th grade, one of the few assigned readings I actually read was S.I. Hayakawa's "Language in Thought and Action" in which there was a chapter on stereotyping and such, in this case using antisemitism, and how the actual facts didn't really make that much difference. If a Jew wasn't demonstrably generous to charities, etc., he was a typically (I'll just go ahead and use the word) niggardly Jew; if he was demonstrably generous, he was "trying to buy his way into society."

As we see played out over and over and over again, prejudices are largely immune to evidence that they are unfounded or unjust. I don't know what the real reason for the association between black people and fried chicken and watermelon is; I suspect there's some research out there but I'm not going to hunt it down. It simply seemed likely to me in the way much of evolutionary biology is a series of "just so stories" that black people eating with their hands, um, fed into preexisting beliefs held by genteel, racist whites.
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Jennifer
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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I don't know about the chicken, but I vaguely recall a documentary saying that the watermelon stereotype started after the Civil War, when a lot of newly freed slaves started raising and selling watermelons as a means of support, so of course the white racists started having problems with that.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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JasonL wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 14:33 When I lived in Osaka, there was this 7-11 type place called Lawsons. Ubiquitous. They had a chicken nugget dispenser that gave you 100g of the breadiest nuggets ever in a bag, then you pick a seasoning and shake the bag. Like 20 seasoning choices - seaweed, sesame, chili, soy, msg, seafood with like dried shrimp and fish flakes, lemon pepper, and on and on. I would literally eat that shit until i got sick all the while talking about how terrible it was.
Is that what this is?

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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Uh, different packaging these days and I don't see the seasoning thing but yes it was karaage kun at Lawsons circa 1997.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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lol

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Kolohe
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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One thing that is probably a net benefit of social media is that everyone eventually learns all the different arguments 3rd thru 6th century CE Christians had with each other.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Kolohe wrote: 10 Jul 2020, 17:59 One thing that is probably a net benefit of social media is that everyone eventually learns all the different arguments 3rd thru 6th century CE Christians had with each other.
Something like this?
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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I know I should know better but every now and then I follow a link to Fox News either by accident or for a lark. This made me chuckle how stupid it is (in an article on unrest in Eugene OR):
It still remains unclear who helps fund and organize these riots, as crowds in several western cities appear increasingly armed with ammunition and fireworks, as well as helmets, umbrellas and makeshift shields designed for confronting local law enforcement and federal officers.
Yes, some shadowy outside group *must* be funding them because no normal person could possibly independently afford ammo, fireworks, helmets, umbrellas, and "makeshift" shields.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Doesn’t take a brain genius to realize they’re mostly funded by taxpayers.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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The makeshift shield factory in my town has had to hire extra shifts to keep up with demand.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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Research will perhaps show a correlation between size of SCA chapters and makeshift shield production.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

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dead_elvis wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 14:22 Research will perhaps show a correlation between size of SCA chapters and makeshift shield production.
I think the SCA is the primary source of the distinctly non-makeshift shields seen at some protests. They're not using a drill and some bolts from the hardware store. They're using anvils and forges and shit.
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