When journalism goes bad

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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2019, 11:21

nicole wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 10:24
Tempted to quote pretty much the entirety of this "news article" but I'll just go with this:
But Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, made desegregation his signature issue when he took the job in 2018, denouncing racial inequality and promising sweeping action. He has specifically questioned whether too many students were being labeled “gifted.”
That last phrase, "questioned whether too many students were being labeled 'gifted,'" links to a NY Post article, which states:
Speaking to District 4 parents in Queens, Carranza said the program — which channels top scorers into exclusive schools — qualifies too many kids.

“When you have over 35 percent of your students be designated as gifted and talented, we need to bottle the water we’re drinking and ship it all over the place,” he said. “Because that is far beyond the percentage of gifted and talented that, from a statistical perspective, should be found in the population.”

Those inordinate numbers, Carranza said, point to a flawed system. But in citing that percentage, Carranza was referencing only kids who actually took the exam — and he was also off on that figure.

A total of 9,074, or 28 percent, of 32,664 test takers qualified for either district or citywide G&T programs last year, according to Department of Education figures.

But only a small percentage of all city kids actually vie for the kindergarten- through third-grade spots. Of all pupils in those grades, only 2.7 percent qualified for G&T seats.
That was, of course, not explained in the new NYT story.
Gifted programs are bad because all students are equally intelligent.

At least, that's what my colleagues say.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 27 Aug 2019, 11:25

nicole wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 10:24
Tempted to quote pretty much the entirety of this "news article" but I'll just go with this:
But Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, made desegregation his signature issue when he took the job in 2018, denouncing racial inequality and promising sweeping action. He has specifically questioned whether too many students were being labeled “gifted.”
That last phrase, "questioned whether too many students were being labeled 'gifted,'" links to a NY Post article, which states:
Speaking to District 4 parents in Queens, Carranza said the program — which channels top scorers into exclusive schools — qualifies too many kids.

“When you have over 35 percent of your students be designated as gifted and talented, we need to bottle the water we’re drinking and ship it all over the place,” he said. “Because that is far beyond the percentage of gifted and talented that, from a statistical perspective, should be found in the population.”

Those inordinate numbers, Carranza said, point to a flawed system. But in citing that percentage, Carranza was referencing only kids who actually took the exam — and he was also off on that figure.

A total of 9,074, or 28 percent, of 32,664 test takers qualified for either district or citywide G&T programs last year, according to Department of Education figures.

But only a small percentage of all city kids actually vie for the kindergarten- through third-grade spots. Of all pupils in those grades, only 2.7 percent qualified for G&T seats.
That was, of course, not explained in the new NYT story.
28% is higher than what you'd eyeball if the distribution is normal. The 1-2 sigma band is like 13.6% of normal distribution and the 2-3 sigma is like another 2.15%, so you typically might say something like 16%.

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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2019, 11:26

If the tests are given to everyone, 28% is indeed high.

If the only kids who take the tests are those who are flagged as likely to do well, then 28% might be reasonable.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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JasonL
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 27 Aug 2019, 11:29

Ahh yes. Right.

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nicole
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by nicole » 27 Aug 2019, 12:00

thoreau wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 11:21
nicole wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 10:24
Tempted to quote pretty much the entirety of this "news article" but I'll just go with this:
But Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, made desegregation his signature issue when he took the job in 2018, denouncing racial inequality and promising sweeping action. He has specifically questioned whether too many students were being labeled “gifted.”
That last phrase, "questioned whether too many students were being labeled 'gifted,'" links to a NY Post article, which states:
Speaking to District 4 parents in Queens, Carranza said the program — which channels top scorers into exclusive schools — qualifies too many kids.

“When you have over 35 percent of your students be designated as gifted and talented, we need to bottle the water we’re drinking and ship it all over the place,” he said. “Because that is far beyond the percentage of gifted and talented that, from a statistical perspective, should be found in the population.”

Those inordinate numbers, Carranza said, point to a flawed system. But in citing that percentage, Carranza was referencing only kids who actually took the exam — and he was also off on that figure.

A total of 9,074, or 28 percent, of 32,664 test takers qualified for either district or citywide G&T programs last year, according to Department of Education figures.

But only a small percentage of all city kids actually vie for the kindergarten- through third-grade spots. Of all pupils in those grades, only 2.7 percent qualified for G&T seats.
That was, of course, not explained in the new NYT story.
Gifted programs are bad because all students are equally intelligent.

At least, that's what my colleagues say.
Yes, the kicker of the NYT article is:
Still, the report said, a system that relies heavily on sorting students according to academic ability “is not equitable, even if it is effective for some.”
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 27 Aug 2019, 12:06

Yeah, those people. "Every other country does healthcare better look at outcomes and costs we should emulate them!"

Also those people: "We definitely should not be tracking and sorting people like every other successful school system in the world with better performance and cost per student metrics."

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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2019, 13:09

All students are equally capable.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 27 Aug 2019, 13:17

Less sarcastically, the thinking on this topic is so driven by concerns over group disparities, so dominated by concerns over inequalities between groups, that individual variance is verboten as an element of any analysis. Everyone is terrified that if we acknowledge individual differences in aptitude we'll have to accept genetic explanations.

I honestly don't think that genetic differences between groups matter for this (especially in the US, where groups are more genetically mixed than in the places their ancestors came from). What I do think matters is differences in early-childhood environment, and the continuing differences in after-school environment. Formative years matter, and they are reflected in all sorts of test scores. Schools cannot undo those factors, and so disparities will be persistent in spite of tremendously expensive efforts to eradicate achievement gaps.

But we can't blame the home environment because (1) it will insult some victim groups and (2) it will make the upper-middle class suburban moms nervous about being blamed for falling short in the Competitive Parenting Tournament that is their existence.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Aresen » 27 Aug 2019, 13:35

thoreau wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 13:17
Less sarcastically, the thinking on this topic is so driven by concerns over group disparities, so dominated by concerns over inequalities between groups, that individual variance is verboten as an element of any analysis. Everyone is terrified that if we acknowledge individual differences in aptitude we'll have to accept genetic explanations.

I honestly don't think that genetic differences between groups matter for this (especially in the US, where groups are more genetically mixed than in the places their ancestors came from). What I do think matters is differences in early-childhood environment, and the continuing differences in after-school environment. Formative years matter, and they are reflected in all sorts of test scores. Schools cannot undo those factors, and so disparities will be persistent in spite of tremendously expensive efforts to eradicate achievement gaps.

But we can't blame the home environment because (1) it will insult some victim groups and (2) it will make the upper-middle class suburban moms nervous about being blamed for falling short in the Competitive Parenting Tournament that is their existence.
I think part of the reason for the ferocity of the competition is that the difference in the rewards for the 0.1% over the 1% is vastly greater than the difference in the rewards for the 1% over the 10%.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by lunchstealer » 27 Aug 2019, 13:40

thoreau wrote:All students are equally culpable.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Jennifer » 27 Aug 2019, 16:33

Eric the .5b wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 11:02
Jennifer wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 03:56
Wimp. He wouldn't last online three minutes as a woman.
Hell, how has he lasted a day as a published writer on Twitter?
I used to Google myself to see what if anything was being said about whatever was the latest piece I wrote, and clearly Stephens does as well ... but I'm trying to imagine myself responding to a negative critique by trying to get the critic fired and ... that picture just isn't forming. I'd never even have done something like register under a sockpuppet account to defend a piece. Yet Stephens .... seriously, the Times ought to fire his ass.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Mo » 27 Aug 2019, 18:35

The Times should fire his ass because he’s using their name to try to get people fired for making mediocre, at best, jokes about him online. For someone that cares so much about free speech, the right to offend and the like, he gets salty AF if someone offends him.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by dhex » 27 Aug 2019, 21:06

Hahah bedbugs
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Mo » 31 Aug 2019, 04:54

Jesus Christ. Now Stephens is laundering his petty grudges through actual op eds. It’s like a college newspaper. He did a fucking Google Book search to find Nazis that used the word bed bugs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/opin ... -ios-share
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by dhex » 31 Aug 2019, 13:58

When all you have is a bag of shit and topped with a very odd sense of what masculinity and reputation mean, everything looks like a bedbug.
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Jennifer » 31 Aug 2019, 17:16

Of course, the irony is that Stephens himself has done everything he's now whining about being done to him. Like comparing people he disapproves of to insects.

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Jennifer » 31 Aug 2019, 18:20

Wait a minute -- wasn't Stephens also one of the guys who claimed to be officially offended by the use of the term "concentration camps" to describe the typhus-ridden facilities where we imprison huge groups of people including children?
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Eric the .5b » 01 Sep 2019, 09:25

Jennifer wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 18:20
Wait a minute -- wasn't Stephens also one of the guys who claimed to be officially offended by the use of the term "concentration camps" to describe the typhus-ridden facilities where we imprison huge groups of people including children?
And where they may have to deal with bedbugs?
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Pham Nuwen » 02 Sep 2019, 21:06

So just so I'm caught up on the latest outrage ... bedbug is now an adjective to people who may or may not be nazis? Or is it being used as a term to describe an angry, desperate, and annoying individual?
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Warren » 02 Sep 2019, 21:09

Pham Nuwen wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 21:06
So just so I'm caught up on the latest outrage ... bedbug is now an adjective to people who may or may not be nazis? Or is it being used as a term to describe an angry, desperate, and annoying individual?
Why not both?
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by nicole » 05 Sep 2019, 11:18

#HasBenPennLanded yet? Jfc what utter trash all of Bloomberg Law apparently is.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Hugh Akston » 30 Sep 2019, 13:53

This article about the science and pseudoscience of plant intelligence starts out really interesting, but goes off the rails about 1/2 through when he starts talking about the alienating effects of late-stage capitalism.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Mo » 05 Oct 2019, 17:10

Never have NYers write about earthquakes. A 3.5 jolted San Francisco? GTFO. A loud fart is more likely to jolt Californians than a 3.5.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/us/e ... cisco.html
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Aresen » 05 Oct 2019, 18:39

Mo wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 17:10
Never have NYers write about earthquakes. A 3.5 jolted San Francisco? GTFO. A loud fart is more likely to jolt Californians than a 3.5.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/us/e ... cisco.html
It's a slow year if I don't feel a couple of magnitude 4 jolts near Victoria.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Highway » 12 Oct 2019, 17:47

I know it's Fox Business, so 'journalism' is a stretch, but even so, this is just unbelievable throughout, and then that plot twist at the end...

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