When journalism goes bad

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Warren
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Warren » 25 Jan 2018, 13:38

Mo wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 13:34
Joe Kernan of CNBC does not know that Ireland is a separate country from the UK, that Scotland does not have it's own currency, Northern Ireland is separate from Ireland, but also uses the pound. But he loves Ireland.
UGH. :roll: Joe was one of the more sensible CNBC regulars.
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JasonL
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 25 Jan 2018, 13:43

Those lines are hard to find I think. I suspect BHO could do more while receiving cover than any president in the post war era, and maybe more any but a handful of presidents since Washington.

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 25 Jan 2018, 13:50

JasonL wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 13:43
Those lines are hard to find I think. I suspect BHO could do more while receiving cover than any president in the post war era, and maybe more any but a handful of presidents since Washington.
I think he could get away with a lot more "business as usual" than most Presidents. That's partly because of his background, partly because of whom he succeeded, and partly because of his persona.

But there are things beyond "business as usual" that would shatter the persona, and then I think they'd want him gone.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Aresen » 25 Jan 2018, 13:54

thoreau wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 13:50
JasonL wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 13:43
Those lines are hard to find I think. I suspect BHO could do more while receiving cover than any president in the post war era, and maybe more any but a handful of presidents since Washington.
I think he could get away with a lot more "business as usual" than most Presidents. That's partly because of his background, partly because of whom he succeeded, and partly because of his persona.

But there are things beyond "business as usual" that would shatter the persona, and then I think they'd want him gone.
The Blues were none too pleased with Bill the Cat by the end of his second term, but they stood by him during the impeachment. I doubt they would do any less for Obama.
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JasonL
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 25 Jan 2018, 14:16

Not just his own party tho. He would get appalling cover from the media. He did get appalling cover from the media.

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Jennifer
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Jennifer » 25 Jan 2018, 14:23

JasonL wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 14:16
Not just his own party tho. He would get appalling cover from the media. He did get appalling cover from the media.
I wonder how much of that was a response (or even an overreaction) to the bad-faith and often downright unhinged criticism the GOP tossed Obama's way. I mean,of course there are certain partisan-type criticisms any Republican will make about any Democrat (and vice versa), but the GOP barely bothered putting a polite diplomatic veneer on it: racist criticism, ethnic criticism (the whole "His middle name is HUSSEIN and must always be typed in ALL CAPS" shit), Birtherism, various GOPers making it plain they were not even going to TRY working with the president no matter what, since he's not of their party (and also, he's not white) .... after enough of that dishonest criticism I can definitely see the eyerolly response to any criticism.
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JasonL
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 25 Jan 2018, 14:43

Those things do tend to feed on each other. But, still and all, the ascendance of identity politics made him bulletproof in the party and the social mores among media types play into that. Nobody has a late night career because they made fun of Obama. Yes some targets are easier than others, but agents who at least nominally are supposed to agitate and probe simply refused to do either.

One of the things I find remarkable about BHO is that, given all that, he wasn't worse. Kill lists are really bad. Hitting MSF in hospitals with drones 2-3 times is really bad. Prosecuting and threatening journalists who wont reveal sources around Snowden things is bad. I actually do think that this effect is why the left was/is so comfortable with warrantless surveillance. The revelations about their guy simply can't be all that bad.

All that said, in my view he could have done way way more things and people would trip over themselves to make it ok.

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by nicole » 25 Jan 2018, 14:51

Yeah, Team JasonL. I would also say more generally that Obama extremely "Demwashed" Iraq-Afghanistan.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Kolohe » 25 Jan 2018, 15:27

Part of Obama's brand is that he was a squeaky clean square in his personal life. In contrast with Clinton or Trump, or even either Bush.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 25 Jan 2018, 15:55

nicole wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 14:51
I would also say more generally that Obama extremely "Demwashed" Iraq-Afghanistan.
Concur. It may be the most destructive part of his legacy.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 25 Jan 2018, 16:08

thoreau wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 15:55
nicole wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 14:51
I would also say more generally that Obama extremely "Demwashed" Iraq-Afghanistan.
Concur. It may be the most destructive part of his legacy.
I feel that way about the surveillance state. Down in my shoes I feel like the reaction to those war mongering conservatives snooping would have been very useful, but because we had BHO, it's normalized forever.

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Mo » 25 Jan 2018, 16:10

Kolohe wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 15:27
Part of Obama's brand is that he was a squeaky clean square in his personal life. In contrast with Clinton or Trump, or even either Bush.
This. Breaking with that loses quite a bit of cover.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 25 Jan 2018, 16:12

JasonL wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 16:08
thoreau wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 15:55
nicole wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 14:51
I would also say more generally that Obama extremely "Demwashed" Iraq-Afghanistan.
Concur. It may be the most destructive part of his legacy.
I feel that way about the surveillance state. Down in my shoes I feel like the reaction to those war mongering conservatives snooping would have been very useful, but because we had BHO, it's normalized forever.
This too.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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thoreau
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 25 Jan 2018, 16:12

The next Democrat in the White House will certainly not continue everything that Trump is doing, but they'll continue parts of it, and render those parts unassailable in the eyes of Blues.

And so the ratchet notches forward (backward?).
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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nicole
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by nicole » 25 Jan 2018, 16:15

JasonL wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 16:08
thoreau wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 15:55
nicole wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 14:51
I would also say more generally that Obama extremely "Demwashed" Iraq-Afghanistan.
Concur. It may be the most destructive part of his legacy.
I feel that way about the surveillance state. Down in my shoes I feel like the reaction to those war mongering conservatives snooping would have been very useful, but because we had BHO, it's normalized forever.
I was adding that to your surveillance point. Hard to decide which is "worse." I mean for me, surveillance state, sure, but there's how many dead Iraqis and you know that whole Islamic State thing.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 25 Jan 2018, 16:22

I'm splitting hairs on things I hate, but my view is that the politics of war is hard to get away from - there are lots of people wanting to keep dropping those bombs.

The domestic surveillance state revelations was kind of a new thing (in magnitude and pervasiveness) with a history of hostile rhetoric from the left, that just all at once became okay forever. I may be influenced by my family and bar type discussions where I was shocked at people who immediately moved to "lol we always knew they were doing it anyway are you naive, this is how you keep people safe". Like people of the reasonably far left. It was just ... fine.

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau » 25 Jan 2018, 16:26

Perversely, Trump will only persuade Blues to keep supporting the surveillance state because everyone's hoping the FBI's counter-intelligence investigators will bring down Trump.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL » 25 Jan 2018, 16:36

Haha .. ha ... kill me.

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nicole
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by nicole » 25 Jan 2018, 16:40

JasonL wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 16:22
I'm splitting hairs on things I hate, but my view is that the politics of war is hard to get away from - there are lots of people wanting to keep dropping those bombs.

The domestic surveillance state revelations was kind of a new thing (in magnitude and pervasiveness) with a history of hostile rhetoric from the left, that just all at once became okay forever. I may be influenced by my family and bar type discussions where I was shocked at people who immediately moved to "lol we always knew they were doing it anyway are you naive, this is how you keep people safe". Like people of the reasonably far left. It was just ... fine.
Yeah I had a couple of those discussions too that were really disturbing.

But by the time of those revelations the left had already collapsed as the antiwar bulwark, which felt like...isn't that what you've been supposed to be for the past 50 years, and now it's just gone? War existed for all that time, the surveillance thing crept up...I don't know.

I was also out of the country for years after 9/11 so I might have very weird impressions of the Bush years. I didn't come back until 2006, and I came back to Ned Lamont trying to primary Joe Lieberman over the war.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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Eric the .5b
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Eric the .5b » 25 Jan 2018, 18:11

JasonL wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 16:22
The domestic surveillance state revelations was kind of a new thing (in magnitude and pervasiveness) with a history of hostile rhetoric from the left, that just all at once became okay forever. I may be influenced by my family and bar type discussions where I was shocked at people who immediately moved to "lol we always knew they were doing it anyway are you naive, this is how you keep people safe". Like people of the reasonably far left. It was just ... fine.
I'm torn between thinking this means they never actually cared about it and it was only ever a talking point, and that this means they feel safe when a Blue has that power.

Of course, I'm not hearing a lot of sturm und drang about privacy now, so I lean toward the former.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Mo » 25 Jan 2018, 19:00

Facebook and Google made people care less about security than the media during the Obama administration did. I suspect that a lot of people feel, “If some faceless company in California knows all this shit about me, who cares if the government does. “
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Warren » 25 Jan 2018, 20:00

Mo wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 19:00
Facebook and Google made people care less about security than the media during the Obama administration did. I suspect that a lot of people feel, “If some faceless company in California knows all this shit about me, who cares if the government does. “
That is the one that fills me with horror.
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Aresen » 25 Jan 2018, 22:58

Warren wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 20:00
Mo wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 19:00
Facebook and Google made people care less about security than the media during the Obama administration did. I suspect that a lot of people feel, “If some faceless company in California knows all this shit about me, who cares if the government does. “
That is the one that fills me with horror.
It's not just the casual acceptance of 'privacy is dead' among the chattering classes, there is also an undertone of 'good riddance.'
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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nicole
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by nicole » 25 Jan 2018, 23:40

This may legitimately be the worst thing I’ve ever read:

https ://babe.net/2018/01/24/snaking-is-the-male-thirst-trap-youre-bound-to-fall-for-at-least-thrice-30035
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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Aresen
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Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Aresen » 25 Jan 2018, 23:46

nicole wrote:
25 Jan 2018, 23:40
This may legitimately be the worst thing I’ve ever read:

https ://babe.net/2018/01/24/snaking-is-the-male-thirst-trap-youre-bound-to-fall-for-at-least-thrice-30035
Dammit. You clickbaited me!
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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