DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Mar 2017, 14:22

Hugh Akston wrote:
Kolohe wrote:Ben Franklin never had a diabetic cat that you're trying to precisely time feeding and vet office hours for an accurate glucose curve.
Of course not. Franklin would have had the sense to take such a thing to the outskirts of Philadelphia and release it into the woods.
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JD
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by JD » 13 Mar 2017, 09:56

Jut this morning I saw this article: Ben Franklin Was Joking When He Suggested Daylight Saving Time

What I can't figure out is, if it's so consistently unpopular, why do we still have it? Somebody must like it.
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JD
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by JD » 13 Mar 2017, 09:59

Oh, here we go:
In fact the petroleum and automobile industries have always been huge supporters of DST, Downing said.

"When you give Americans more light at the end of the day, they really do want to get out of the house. And they go to ballparks, or to the mall and other places, but they don't walk there. Daylight saving reliably increases the amount of driving that Americans do, and gasoline consumption tracks up with daylight saving."
...
"We found that during the period of the 2007 [daylight] extension, people engaged in more outdoor recreation and less indoor-TV watching," [Wolff] said. "An additional 3 percent of people engaged in outdoor behaviors who otherwise would have stayed indoors."

Cash is king, and economics have always played a role in the politics of daylight saving time. Over the past 50 years, DST has been stretched from six months to seven months to now eight months in part because several industries have been huge supporters. In the mid-1980s, for example, the golf industry estimated that an extra month of DST was worth $200 to $400 million.

During that same time the U.S. barbecue industry pegged their increased profits at $150 million for that same additional month.
(http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 3-science/)
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Aresen
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Aresen » 13 Mar 2017, 17:40

JD wrote:Jut this morning I saw this article: Ben Franklin Was Joking When He Suggested Daylight Saving Time

What I can't figure out is, if it's so consistently unpopular, why do we still have it? Somebody must like it.
It's not that DST itself is unpopular. It is the changeover that people hate (especially the 'spring ahead').
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Jason
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVING TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Jason » 14 Mar 2017, 12:55

Most of the Daylight Saving Time complaints I hear are about how bad non-DST is…
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Warren » 14 Mar 2017, 14:13

It's time to put this thread to bed.
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Jason
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Jason » 14 Mar 2017, 14:15

Well, it did lose an hour of sleep.
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Kwix
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Kwix » 14 Mar 2017, 14:31

For us the whole time change thing is moot. This time of year we gain approx 5 minutes of daylight per day. Sure, sunrise just got pushed forward an hour but in less than 3 weeks it'll be right back where it was before.
As for the longer nights, we have those anyway.
Nifty app that shows you the Sunrise, Sunset and Solar Noon calcs for your area. This will be the solar day on Jun 21, 2017 near my place.
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Kolohe
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Kolohe » 14 Mar 2017, 22:55

Kwix wrote:For us the whole time change thing is moot. This time of year we gain approx 5 minutes of daylight per day. Sure, sunrise just got pushed forward an hour but in less than 3 weeks it'll be right back where it was before.
As for the longer nights, we have those anyway.
Nifty app that shows you the Sunrise, Sunset and Solar Noon calcs for your area. This will be the solar day on Jun 21, 2017 near my place.
That's a pretty cool app. I've been looking for something like that for where the best place to put the planter box around the house. (and what to plant in the raised one I can't move)
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 05 Nov 2017, 23:51

"Another busy night at all the British henge sites as staff work all night to move the stones forward by an hour."
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by the innominate one » 06 Nov 2017, 19:14

Standard time fucking sucks and changing clocks around fucking sucks even more.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Aresen » 06 Nov 2017, 21:38

British Columbia and Alberta are both talking about making it permanent. The governments in both provinces have done surveys. In BC it came back 82% wanted to stop changing in the spring and fall and 62% wanted to go permanent daylight savings. The results came back too late to implement before last weekend, but now the government is 'considering' it.

In Alberta, a motion in the legislature to go permanent daylight savings was defeated 52 - 6, primarily because businesses lobbied against it (The objection is to getting out of sync with the rest of the continent, not to the change per se.)
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Eric the .5b
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Eric the .5b » 06 Nov 2017, 21:44

Screw it. Let's use the traditional Japanese clock for local times, Swatch beats for synchronizing times.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by JasonL » 06 Nov 2017, 22:20

If it’s half past cardamom at my house, it should be half past cardamom everywhere.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Eric the .5b » 06 Nov 2017, 23:05

I'm about 5% serious on the traditional Japanese clock. Or Roman clock. Split up the day and split up the night into 12 (or 6, for Japanese) equal parts apiece. Day hour lengths and and night hour lengths are almost never exactly the same, and they slowly change in length, day to day. But if you go by that time schedule and go into work at, say, the Hour of the Dog and leave at the Hour of the Monkey, you're always arriving after sunrise and leaving before sunset, no matter the time of year.

We're kind of used to two 12-hour blocks, so maybe hours going from 0d (sunrise) to 11d and 0n (sunset) to 11n. Subdivide hours by twelfths. Days and nights run from 0:0 to 11:11, with no huge call for smaller units. (Because much smaller than ~5 minutes, you're hitting non-everyday uses and need the sort of precision where you don't want the lengths to change. Use .beats, then!)
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Jadagul » 06 Nov 2017, 23:51

Eric, that's horrifying.

First, because it keeps day lengths from being consistent from day today. The whole point of having time measurements is that they're the same!

And second, because it would rob me of my precious couple of months where the sun goes down before work ends.

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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Warren » 07 Nov 2017, 00:47

Why isn't there more support for "Next time we move the clocks half an hour AND NEVER FUCK WITH THEM AGAIN"? It's the only way out of this morass.

If I had my way we'd go metric and divide the day into ten units. Let's call them freds. Each fred would be 2.4 hours long. A decifred would be 14.4 minutes. A centifred would be just under a minute and a half. And a milifred would be 8.64 seconds.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by lunchstealer » 07 Nov 2017, 03:30

Warren wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 00:47
Why isn't there more support for "Next time we move the clocks half an hour AND NEVER FUCK WITH THEM AGAIN"? It's the only way out of this morass.

If I had my way we'd go metric and divide the day into ten units. Let's call them freds. Each fred would be 2.4 hours long. A decifred would be 14.4 minutes. A centifred would be just under a minute and a half. And a milifred would be 8.64 seconds.
I could sign on to the half hour bit.

However, why go decimal when you could go duodecimal?

Divide the day into 12 two-hour units with 144 subunits that are each about 50ish current-seconds long. That can be divided into 144 short second-like units (but counting those would be hard, as that's about 172bpm) or 12 longish second-like units (about four current seconds) which is also hard. One could do 24 two-second-ish second-like units, or even 72 slightly-fast second-like units.

And while we're at it we also ditch metric and english systems in favor of a base 12 system founded on the inch. 12 inches to a foot, 1728 (12^3) feet to a duodecimal mile.

And throw out base-10 altogether in favor of base 12. Make everyone go back to school to learn better math.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by the innominate one » 07 Nov 2017, 03:45

Die.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by lunchstealer » 07 Nov 2017, 04:46

the innominate one wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 03:45
Die.
yes, you could use a 12-sided die to randomly select an hour of the day.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Eric the .5b » 07 Nov 2017, 05:35

Jadagul wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 23:51
Eric, that's horrifying.
:D

(That's the other 95%.)
Jadagul wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 23:51
First, because it keeps day lengths from being consistent from day today. The whole point of having time measurements is that they're the same!
People cheerfully used varying hour-lengths for hundreds or thousands of years (depending on how you count it up). And when you need actual consistency, .beats would be precise, consistent, and universal.
Jadagul wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 23:51
And second, because it would rob me of my precious couple of months where the sun goes down before work ends.
But with the right scheduling, you could get out of work at 1n (an hour after sunset) every day without worrying about DST or time of year!
Last edited by Eric the .5b on 07 Nov 2017, 05:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Sandy » 07 Nov 2017, 05:37

Also, it makes calculating the six faces of the TimeCube much more natural.

But seriously. Base 12 FTW. If we had six digits on each limb, we’d never use base 10 for scientific measurement systems.
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Eric the .5b » 07 Nov 2017, 05:50

More seriously, everything's ultimately based on International Atomic Time (TAI, because French) and the wiggling cesium atoms. Everything down the chain, including UTC, is just varying degrees of adjustment to work in leap seconds and time zones and DST/summer time and other factors to try to make the accurate measurement of time actually convenient for everyday human use.

So, the idea of a more humanistic clock as a abstraction over precision time measurement intrigues me. It may not be this neo-wadokei thing I've been describing, but I suspect such an arrangement could be made practical.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Eric the .5b » 07 Nov 2017, 05:58

lunchstealer wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 03:30
And while we're at it we also ditch metric and english systems in favor of a base 12 system founded on the inch. 12 inches to a foot, 1728 (12^3) feet to a duodecimal mile.

And throw out base-10 altogether in favor of base 12. Make everyone go back to school to learn better math.
No, go hardcore. Take Jefferson's system and just change the factor of 10 to 12. 12 inches per foot, 12 feet per decade (gotta rename that...), 12 decades per rood, 12 roods per furlong, 12 furlongs per mile. So, 12^4 or 20,736 feet per mile.

Hmm, maybe we could cut out a level to keep the miles smaller. Yeah, drop decades and just go to 12 feet per rood (or rod).

Or perhaps, balls it hard, keep the "decades" level, and use leagues instead of miles!
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Re: DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TWICE ANNUAL GRIPE THREAD

Post by Eric the .5b » 07 Nov 2017, 06:12

Also, I'm thinking "0123456789AB" isn't cool enough for base 12. "0123456789XY", so that 10 is X for the Roman numerals reference and 11 is the next letter, Y.
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