If you leave

Post Reply
User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25475
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

If you leave

Post by JasonL »

So I always laugh at people who say if Other Team wins I’m moving to another country. I’m kind of feeling that way myself rn, because all the teams are the stupidest versions I’ve seen and I don’t believe the center will hold. I think it is entirely possible the teams are “Q Anon truth must be exposed and also white people are losing the country man” vs “COVID has taught us that nobody should ever have to pay rent again and white supremacy something something let’s be Maoists”

Every conversation I see is stupider than the last. Zero media accounts can be trusted for even basic facts. Activists are the stupidest people in the world yet people are afraid of them. The list of important topics immediately dissolves under fucking stupid authoritarian vs Che LARPing bullshit And on and on.

I’m not sure there’s anything here. Retiring elsewhere away from this absurd clown show seems more and more appealing.

So, where. I’m assuming basically everywhere will be authoritarian. Liberty will not be an argument that wins for a generation if ever again. On the earth. So, pretty things to look at, a culture of soft authoritarianism not Chinese style. I like the alps. NZ a bit too provincial. Hmm
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 30164
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: If you leave

Post by Warren »

JasonL wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 11:53 I’m kind of feeling that way myself rn
I've been seeing a lot of people declaring themselves to be registered nurses out of context. What's that about?

As for me, I'm staying put. I want to watch it burn.
Nobody, men included, wants a world where men treat women with the same respect they show to other men. - thoreau
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20439
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: If you leave

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Saint Kitts and Nevis is having a citizenship sale until the end of the year. If you buy property, it's a pretty good deal. We're considering it.

I like Costa Rica and Portugal, too. Luckily, language isn't much of a problem pretty much anywhere now for English speakers. For that matter, though we'd probably keep an anchor property in the U.S., maybe a small place in Austin, I could see spending summers in Montreal and winters in the Caribbean or Central America comfortably and relatively inexpensively.
User avatar
Mo
Posts: 25725
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: If you leave

Post by Mo »

UK is a nice place to retire. The authoritarianism of Singapore bothers my principles, but won’t affect my day to day life. I would also be down with somewhere like Portugal as well.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 8861
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: If you leave

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Portugal sounds pretty dope.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 30164
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: If you leave

Post by Warren »

ICWUDT
Nobody, men included, wants a world where men treat women with the same respect they show to other men. - thoreau
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 8861
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: If you leave

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Warren wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 13:41ICWUDT
What do you think you are doing? Explaining the joke? What's happened to you, maaaaaaaaaaaan???
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 30164
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: If you leave

Post by Warren »

Well I didn't explain the joke.
But I did point to it. My apologies.
Next time I'll merely lower my copy of Daily Telegraph half an inch and peer over it at you.
Nobody, men included, wants a world where men treat women with the same respect they show to other men. - thoreau
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12188
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: If you leave

Post by JD »

Uruguay is peaceful, reasonably free, and inexpensive.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17282
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: If you leave

Post by Aresen »

For me, Vancouver Island is as nice as it gets, climate-wise. New Zealand might be a touch better, but I have no plans to move.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 8861
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: If you leave

Post by Pham Nuwen »

JD wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 16:20 Uruguay is peaceful, reasonably free, and inexpensive.
Lot of ex nazis there right?
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 1726
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: If you leave

Post by dead_elvis »

Costa Rica is attractive for us because of family ties but the Pacific side (the side with the more pleasant climate) has been overrun by gringos, San Jose has become choked with traffic, and it has always been one of the more expensive latin american options. I was really impressed with Peru; seemed like a decent combination of tradeoffs not least of which was that it was actually very cheap. They are, however, not dealing as well with the 'rona.

Thailand seems to attract expats but I don't think I could take the climate and I don't think I would be able to restrain myself being a smart ass about the "don't speak badly about the royal family" nonsense.

I do find NZ to be highly attractive. Always been sad about the time I was a finalist for a job there in '99 but I didn't get it; in hindsight it would have been a miserably wonky work situation but I have always had the sense we would have been happy as clams living there.

I've liked the idea of living in Germany, but I'm sure it would be too expensive, so perhaps some other similarly middle european country that is cheaper would be nice. In the past I might have said Hungary but they are clearly heading down a scary path politically. I've heard nice things about Estonia. I wonder how things are these days in Slovakia/Croatia/Bosnia? Heck I think I could do Italy. Who needs economic freedom when the ugliest person you'll see in a day is a 9.5 and cuisine gives orgasms.
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17282
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: If you leave

Post by Aresen »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 17:01
JD wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 16:20 Uruguay is peaceful, reasonably free, and inexpensive.
Lot of ex nazis there right?
Drooling in their sauerkraut by now in Dr. Mengele's Seniorenresidenz für Kriegsverbrecher.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3412
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: If you leave

Post by Number 6 »

Saceli, Italy.
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
"Come, let us go forth and not rape together"-Jadagul
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20439
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: If you leave

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Costa Rica *is* pricey by Latin American standards, but you get a stable government and it has lots of gringos because gringos are welcome (well, so far). I consider that a feature, not a bug. A large Anglophone expat community means it's much more likely there will be markets catering to Anglo tastes and sensibilities. Plus a more robust resale market should you change your mind.

I've lived in both Germany and Italy and I wouldn't want to be a permanent expat in either country. Unless it has changed dramatically -- possible but unlikely -- Italy is one of the few places where English *isn't* commonly spoken outside tourist traps, plus no matter what sort of ethnic food a restaurant purports to be serving, it's going to end up tasting like Italian food. As much as I love Italian cuisine, too much is too much. Also, Number 6, Southern Italy is poorer and thus less expensive, but you not only have the language problem you have, well, let's say an indigenous power structure based almost entirely on family. Family, I hasten to add, you wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of.

Germany is just blah. It's America except way more expensive without many advantages over the U.S. The absence of Trump aside, that is. Lot's of good jazz, good beer and legal prostitution, fwiw, but I can't recommend it beyond those sorts of features.

The thing about anywhere in South America, proper, is that flights to points outside the continent are obscenely expensive, a problem New Zealand and Australia have, too.

I like pretty much everything about Portugal. It's inexpensive by EU standards, has great beaches and Lisbon is a wonderful city. It's a sort of Iberian San Francisco in a good way. There is also, predictably, a large expat community in Portugal, mostly English and German (and, of course, the Germans all speak English, so that's a wash).

I think a threshold question is whether you're looking for permanent residence status or citizenship. Citizenship has some real advantages these days, especially when it comes to visa-free travel to other places and access to government services. If I had to give up U.S. citizenship it would be a nonstarter, but dual citizenship is increasingly attractive to me; hence, our interest in St. Kitts.
User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 1726
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: If you leave

Post by dead_elvis »

Yeah I think we want different things. I *want* to make a reasonable effort to go native, so I view a substantial U.S.-expat community to be a negative (plus lots of Americans means paying American prices). I don't necessarily want to be the *only* one but I want to be novel enough that locals will judge me as an individual and not a faceless member of an invading horde.

The way you describe Germany is what I'd be looking for in living there- not exciting, but more civilized.
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19050
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: If you leave

Post by lunchstealer »

Canada wouldn't be too bad. America's hat so very few culture shocks, some political stupidity but not so out of control, especially west of Ontario, although you get climate problems until you get even farther west. Prolly Nova Scotia or Newf would be okay too but again climate. Not that I have much experience.

A little surprised that J isn't interested in Japan, given that you speak at least some of the language. That said, English isn't super common, and you can't phonetically read a LOT of signs etc. I dig the food and at least some of the foreign cuisine is as legit as in the US, although I only tried it a couple times for a change of pace and because vegans in the party needed some variety due to limited Japanese options there (I think they relaxed on seafood, IIRC, and maybe eggs or the like, because they didn't want to be a MASSIVE burden on the trip in terms of making food-finding a horrific slog). Indian at least was recognizably Indian and my chana masala was tasty enough. Climate's fine, civilized, not too American but fully modern, etc. Expensive as all hell but if you can swing it or get a supplemental job teaching English or the like, not so bad.

Caribbean would be okay although the weather might get monotonous. Dominica has the terrain for more variation there. Don't like it here, go up to the next climate zone. I like the birds there, too. French West Indes are French, but beaches sometimes make for a really breathtaking view of a backstroke. Purely for the athleticism, of course.

I have heard similar nice things about Portugal, and who doesn't like a mediterranean climate without Frenchmen or Californians? Could do Andean climate, but not super into the choices of country, although Chile could be okay.

NZ or Oz appeal. Anglophone but not awful. Britain's okay, but I can't afford London and don't know much about the rest of the country. Could probably do the right part of Scotland but I could also end up running my mouth off and getting stabbed.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19050
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: If you leave

Post by lunchstealer »

dead_elvis wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 19:04 Yeah I think we want different things. I *want* to make a reasonable effort to go native, so I view a substantial U.S.-expat community to be a negative (plus lots of Americans means paying American prices). I don't necessarily want to be the *only* one but I want to be novel enough that locals will judge me as an individual and not a faceless member of an invading horde.

The way you describe Germany is what I'd be looking for in living there- not exciting, but more civilized.
I want to go modestly native but have terrible foreign language skills, at least so far as I know, so going native in an anglophone country seems nice, but also I'm not sure I'm hard enough to do it in a place like South Africa so I also need it to be pussed-out sheltered nerd friendly, in terms of how street smart you need to be.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20439
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: If you leave

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

lunchstealer wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 23:18
dead_elvis wrote: 08 Aug 2020, 19:04 Yeah I think we want different things. I *want* to make a reasonable effort to go native, so I view a substantial U.S.-expat community to be a negative (plus lots of Americans means paying American prices). I don't necessarily want to be the *only* one but I want to be novel enough that locals will judge me as an individual and not a faceless member of an invading horde.

The way you describe Germany is what I'd be looking for in living there- not exciting, but more civilized.
I want to go modestly native but have terrible foreign language skills, at least so far as I know, so going native in an anglophone country seems nice, but also I'm not sure I'm hard enough to do it in a place like South Africa so I also need it to be pussed-out sheltered nerd friendly, in terms of how street smart you need to be.
I, too, have terrible foreign language acquisition skills or, probably more honestly, I've never been willing to make the long enough, intense enough effort. And I know there's some subliminal resistance whispering (in English) in my ear every step of the way that since I'm never going to be as competent and fluent in the new language, why not just stick with English. Finally, not unlike math, you've got to keep doing it to stay on top; stop using the language and vocabulary and verb conjugations start falling away like leaves in autumn. Maybe not if you learn multiple languages when you're very young, but the native language hard-wiring is already set by adolescence.

As a result, I failed to learn Spanish in middle school, failed to learn German in high school, failed to learn French in college and failed to learn Italian in, well, in Italy. I do or did have enough of a reading knowledge of French and German to qualify when I was in a PhD program, but for those of you who have never had to meet that particular and increasingly peculiar and pointless requirement for a doctorate in the humanities, it's pretty much of a joke. You can take a dictionary and verb conjugation crib sheets and the fact is that reading philosophy in French or German is much easier than reading fiction. Pretty much everything is in the present tense and the core vocabulary is 90% recognizable and translatable on sight.

I get younger people wanting to 'go native' in a non-English speaking culture, but that time has passed for me. There would just be too many potential hazards at my age for which I would need or at least damned well want to be able to communicate fluently.
User avatar
Ellie
Posts: 13466
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 18:34

Re: If you leave

Post by Ellie »

I've mentioned before that when I was 18 I read the essay in the Toward Liberty anthology, about how Chile privatized their social security system, and I became captivated with the idea of moving there. Heh. Then I had kids and thought it would be nice to live there when they're young so they could learn Spanish, but that was with the idea of moving back to the US eventually.

If I were really going to LEAVE leave, for good? I feel drawn to Africa for some reason. Botswana or Tanzania. Or maybe Ethiopia just for the food ;)
"Yours is the much better comeback." -JD
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 30164
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: If you leave

Post by Warren »

I thought Ethiopia was the Poster Country for "place without food".
Nobody, men included, wants a world where men treat women with the same respect they show to other men. - thoreau
User avatar
Ellie
Posts: 13466
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 18:34

Re: If you leave

Post by Ellie »

This damn pandemic needs to GTFO so you can come visit me and I'll take you to an Ethiopian restaurant! Oh my god I'm nearly crying thinking about it, I'm not even kidding
"Yours is the much better comeback." -JD
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19050
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: If you leave

Post by lunchstealer »

Ethiopia was the Poster Country for "place with food, but socialist government and a civil war about it meant it didn't get where it was needed, possibly not even on purpose." They're not that level of socialists anymore, so food isn't a big deal.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 19721
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: If you leave

Post by Hugh Akston »

I prefer cold weather to warm, so I would probably go to Scandinavia, Holland, Belgium, NZ, or possibly Patagonia.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman
Post Reply