Random covid-19 observations

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thoreau
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:40
I've been mildly obsessed with the credibility crisis angle for most of the year. I see people do this stuff, then they have the audacity to look you in the eye, call you a denier and ask of the cosmos why don't people trust science and experts lol they so dumb. You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?
The people who signed that open letter saying protests are OK just shit all over credibility.

Yes, I know, the protesters are outside and many are wearing masks. I freely grant that a protest is safer than, say, a packed nightclub, but that's not saying much. We shut down most of public and commercial life for months and then a bunch of public health researchers sign an open letter saying protests are more important.

The only honest statement they could have made is "Look, protests are dangerous in a pandemic. That's reality. That said, we understand that many people are compelled by conscience to take risks for causes they deem of grave importance. We can't say this is safe, we can only say that this is a risk, so don't take the risk unless conscience compels you, and if conscience does compel you, at least mitigate: Wear a mask, and after a protest self-quarantine."

But they didn't say that. They said that racism is a public health issue so these protests are OK. That's something I'd expect from an astronomer, not a credible public health expert.
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Shem
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Shem »

JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 08:16
Can I just say I despise everything about the underlying premises in stories like that. Hey government, hey authority figures, STFU about what you think I might do with actual information, give me actual information and maybe I won't bitch so much about your "expertise".
I think I wasn't entirely clear. They were given the actual information. None of the stuff I described was a secret, while it was happening, or at any point after, except insofar as any minor chore that happens on a naval base is secret. You think people actually thought their spare sugar was needed for the war effort? But pointless-seeming rituals can make a difference in mindset and behavior in other areas. If it couldn't, mediation would be a waste of time.
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nicole
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

thoreau wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:50
JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:40
I've been mildly obsessed with the credibility crisis angle for most of the year. I see people do this stuff, then they have the audacity to look you in the eye, call you a denier and ask of the cosmos why don't people trust science and experts lol they so dumb. You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?
The people who signed that open letter saying protests are OK just shit all over credibility.

Yes, I know, the protesters are outside and many are wearing masks. I freely grant that a protest is safer than, say, a packed nightclub, but that's not saying much. We shut down most of public and commercial life for months and then a bunch of public health researchers sign an open letter saying protests are more important.

The only honest statement they could have made is "Look, protests are dangerous in a pandemic. That's reality. That said, we understand that many people are compelled by conscience to take risks for causes they deem of grave importance. We can't say this is safe, we can only say that this is a risk, so don't take the risk unless conscience compels you, and if conscience does compel you, at least mitigate: Wear a mask, and after a protest self-quarantine."

But they didn't say that. They said that racism is a public health issue so these protests are OK. That's something I'd expect from an astronomer, not a credible public health expert.
I mean, I would imagine public health is a much more female-skewed field than astronomy, right?
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thoreau
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

Not following your point.
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Warren
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Warren »

JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:40
You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?
By and large, yes. Yes, I think that's generally true.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

Warren wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 17:07
JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:40
You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?
By and large, yes. Yes, I think that's generally true.
Yeah, most people don't notice. Being a person who does notice is basically a proxy for being spiritually oppressed by the majority generally, because this is what the majority is like.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

thoreau wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 15:19
Not following your point.
I will assume this is a strategic statement made in front of the veil.
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thoreau
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

nicole wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 09:53
thoreau wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 15:19
Not following your point.
I will assume this is a strategic statement made in front of the veil.
No, I'm honestly not sure. Are you saying that public health researchers took that stand because they have so many women?

Astronomy has fewer women yet has a similar mindset, so I honestly don't think putative sex differences explain this.
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nicole
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

thoreau wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 09:57
nicole wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 09:53
thoreau wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 15:19
Not following your point.
I will assume this is a strategic statement made in front of the veil.
No, I'm honestly not sure. Are you saying that public health researchers took that stand because they have so many women?

Astronomy has fewer women yet has a similar mindset, so I honestly don't think putative sex differences explain this.
I mean, I do think that 90% of our current problems are from what is typically called the feminization of bureaucracy/the workplace. I also think things are probably way less bad in astronomy than in more female-skewed fields.
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thoreau
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

Well, obviously I can't do direct comparisons between astronomy and other fields, but I concede that two major factors in PC are linked to mindsets that people associate with femininity:
1) The spread of pop psychology, the therapeutic state, etc. Talking about everything in terms of emotional safety, feeling supported, etc. I know plenty of women who roll their eyes at this talk, but I also grant that this talk is, if not feminine per se, at least even less masculine than feminine. The authors and talk show hosts who push pop psychology definitely see their target audiences as female-dominated.

Then again, there are plenty of French male theorists who went on and on about the power of words and symbols to shape thought, and that also feeds into a lot of these ideas.

2) Guilt. Lots and lots of guilt. And I grant that questioning yourself is associated with femininity while confidence is associated with masculinity. And a lot of this liberal guilt is also the legacy of Christianity, particularly the influence of Puritans and Quakers over America's left flank. Both were, at least by the standards of their time, egalitarian and friendly to women's rights (again, compared with other groups back then). Also, Catholicism, which nobody would ever associate with superior status for women, is infamous for instilling guilt, and these days there are more women in the pews than men. (I've heard people say that if atheists really want to get more women at their events they should take a cue from Christianity.)

Ironically, if I told astronomers that they're in the grips of pop psychology and religiously-derived guilt, and never mentioned gender, they'd accuse me of being a white male who doesn't appreciate women's unique needs. While denying that women and men are different.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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I mean, I spent the whole first part of my life being taught that these things did not in fact equal femininity and that women could be whatever they wanted, but that's no longer the fashionable thinking so I'm only left to conclude that my naive childhood view was right and women are just a problem.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 17:07
JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:40
You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?
By and large, yes. Yes, I think that's generally true.
And some substantial bulk of those who don't believe you because of the lab coat are disbelieving them not because lab coat or credibility but because it's really self-satisfying to be the one who gets to say I KNOW THE REAL TRUTH UNLIKE YOU SHEEP SCIENTISTS ARE LIBERAL LIARS WHO WANT MARXIST SHARIA
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Warren »

lunchstealer wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 14:07
Warren wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 17:07
JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:40
You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?
By and large, yes. Yes, I think that's generally true.
And some substantial bulk of those who don't believe you because of the lab coat are disbelieving them not because lab coat or credibility but because it's really self-satisfying to be the one who gets to say I KNOW THE REAL TRUTH UNLIKE YOU SHEEP SCIENTISTS ARE LIBERAL LIARS WHO WANT MARXIST SHARIA
Yup. Most people are married to their prejudices, which coincide with their self-interest. And since you can always find a guy in a lab coat to reinforce your inclinations, we see a lot of instances where both sides are tweeting "Believe the Science!" at each other.
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thoreau
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

nicole wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 10:58
I mean, I spent the whole first part of my life being taught that these things did not in fact equal femininity and that women could be whatever they wanted, but that's no longer the fashionable thinking so I'm only left to conclude that my naive childhood view was right and women are just a problem.
I was also taught that as a kid. I think that progressives want to legitimize their obsession with guilt and pop psychology by linking them to femininity. Oppression confers status in their moral calculus, so if they can invoke stereotypes linking a set of values with an oppressed group then they can elevate the moral status of their value system. Women really are a discriminated-against group (as much as I question certain narratives in certain contexts, I freely admit that there is real discrimination in some contexts), so they can get mileage from stereotypes portraying their values as especially aligned with women's inclinations.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Mo »

I think it has more to do with class loyalty than anything else. The educated classes listened to them, even as guidance changed and didn’t yell at them when shit was going down. So when the requirements of class loyalty shifted, they returned the favor.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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Jeff and I had tried, very cautiously, to do a couple of not-strictly-necessary business visits (thrift stores in search of rayon shirts for me plus whatever other cool things I might find, overstock outlet in search of whatever cool or useful items they might have, the "farmer's market" store with the cheap spices and foreign stuff, etc.) -- always taking full precautions, wearing masks, carrying and using sanitizer, staying six feet from others whenever we can (some shoppers are more conscientious than others, regarding "making this possible"), etc. ... but cases in Georgia keep rising (Jeff mentioned we recently had our highest single number of new cases in a day), plus there's shit like "the local YMCA shut down its day camp after a counselor turned up positive AND showing symptoms" (in other news, day camps are still operating throughout Georgia) -- nope, we're going back into lockdown. One grocery shopping trip per week, during M-F business hours, otherwise we're staying home. At least Jeff's job is still taking this seriously and still applying strict separation and decontamination protocols.

This is the time of year hot and humid enough that if we did go out, ordinarily it would be to something like one of the mega-gigantic mega-malls, or a museum "after dark" event, with IMAX movie -- someplace air-conditioned, in other words, because it's too damned hot for outdoor things, especially for Jeff who IMO still doesn't have the "right" clothes for the most intense summer heat. But indoor places with recirculated air are the worst places to be regarding this virus. And cases are rising in the state, and not enough locals are taking this seriously, so ... we're staying home again, and only going out when we absolutely have to, for food and work.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Jennifer »

Here's some information which is definitely useful to people in the greater metro Atlanta area, and possibly in other parts of the US as well (especially urban areas with big immigrant populations): long ago, in the Before Time when I was still very new to this region, I mentioned that there are a LOT of "beauty supply" stores in this area, especially in the low-rent business districts -- not national chains like Sally Beauty which sell big industrial/salon-size bottles of shampoo, hair dyes, perm chemicals and the like to salon owners (though ordinary people are welcome to shop there too); these are indie businesses, almost all owned and operated by Chinese immigrants -- roughly half the floor space of each store is dedicated to those hair extensions popular with many black women, while the other half is makeup, cheap hair accessories, costume jewelry and the like. I visited several in my early Atlanta days, searching for ponytail barrettes with four-inches-or-wider clips, and last patronized one two Octobers ago, when I bought fake fingernails for a Halloween costume.

Come to find out the local indie beauty supply shops are excellent sources for face shields (if you want any), masks, gloves and similar covid accessories. (I have no idea if national chain stores like Sally Beauty are the same -- but even if they are, I'll bet Sally Beauty charges far more than the indie shops.)

Given the overwhelmingly male population of this forum, I'm guessing that even if there are similar indie-beauty supply stores in your area, you likely never bothered setting foot in one before, and never considered such a store in answer to the question "Where can I find various personal items I might need?" And so, I mention it here.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Highway »

I don't know if anyone else drinks enough 'fringe' Coke products to notice, but all of the stores around here have only 4 Coca-Cola branded sodas available: Coke, Diet Coke, Coke Zero, and Sprite. No flavors, no caffeine-free colas, no anything besides those 4. And since my wife mainly drinks Cherry Coke Zero and Caffeine-Free Coke Zero, she's pretty annoyed about it. There was a similar, but not as bad, contraction in availability back in late March, early April, but that seemed like more of a general shortage / lack of inventory. This is full shelves of those 4 items.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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plenty of coke zero on the eastern shore. (tbf, i only noticed this today because someone dropped one of those 12 can cases of soda in the aisle at acme)
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Highway
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Highway »

Yeah, there's a lot of Coke Zero, just no Cherry or Caffeine Free, or even Cherry Vanilla or whatever other terrible flavors they have.
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Number 6
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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Same here. Little or no flavored Coke zero or, for that matter, flavored Pepsi zero. Mountain Dew zero also has vanished.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

My completely ex rectum guess would be they're cutting back on less well selling products to reduce their distribution logistics during the pandemic. We've seen pretty much everything back on the shelves now -- can't speak to sodas because we only get a case of Mexican Cokes once in a while from Sam's Club -- but there are still fewer selections for some items than there was before.

Mildly apropos, I suppose most people remember when alt-flavor colas weren't mass produced and marketed. I'm old enough, however, to remember drug store lunch counters where you could order a cherry or vanilla or chocolate coke. It's a fond memory and I still occasionally squeeze a bit of chocolate syrup into a Coke for old time's sake.

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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Warren »

Can get Comet, but no Bon Ami, and No Scrubbing Bubbles grrrrr :x
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Painboy »

As I understand it a surprising amount of cola products, including the big ones, are actually handled by local bottling plants. So my WAG is that it may be just local supply chain issues.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Painboy wrote:
03 Jul 2020, 16:58
As I understand it a surprising amount of cola products, including the big ones, are actually handled by local bottling plants. So my WAG is that it may be just local supply chain issues.
Used to be the case that pretty much all such sodas were distributed by "your local [Coca-Cola / Pepsi Cola] bottler." I think especially with the rise of canned drinks and disposable plastic bottles that's mostly a thing of the past, but I always imagined as a kid some Brinks truck pulling up in the dead of night to our "local X bottler" to drop off a supply of the secret formula syrup.

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