Random covid-19 observations

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 19454
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Hugh Akston »

People aren't complying with mask mandates, which are supposedly the law. So I'm not sure that's a ringing endorsement for authoritarianism either.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 10670
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

I’m old enough to remember when pro-government types was trying to get pro-mask libertarians suppressed on social media. Because I’m more than three months old.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25375
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by JasonL »

nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 09:04
I’m old enough to remember when pro-government types was trying to get pro-mask libertarians suppressed on social media. Because I’m more than three months old.
actual coffee snort

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 10670
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

There are like a million tweets like this rn and I have never thought it was more important to abolish schools, like holy fuck

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3303
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Number 6 »

nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 09:04
I’m old enough to remember when pro-government types was trying to get pro-mask libertarians suppressed on social media. Because I’m more than three months old.
I try very hard to ignore social media, so I'll own my ignorance here. When did this happen?
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
"Come, let us go forth and not rape together"-Jadagul

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 13726
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Highway »

Number 6 wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 11:47
nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 09:04
I’m old enough to remember when pro-government types was trying to get pro-mask libertarians suppressed on social media. Because I’m more than three months old.
I try very hard to ignore social media, so I'll own my ignorance here. When did this happen?
I mean, I see the point, because there was a lot of "Don't use up the limited N95 masks that are available, because there are shortages in hospitals" in that March time frame. This was also in the time of "we don't know if masks are effective, so you should stay home and not use one."
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 29671
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Warren »

Highway wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 12:03
Number 6 wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 11:47
nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 09:04
I’m old enough to remember when pro-government types was trying to get pro-mask libertarians suppressed on social media. Because I’m more than three months old.
I try very hard to ignore social media, so I'll own my ignorance here. When did this happen?
I mean, I see the point, because there was a lot of "Don't use up the limited N95 masks that are available, because there are shortages in hospitals" in that March time frame. This was also in the time of "we don't know if masks are effective, so you should stay home and not use one."
It was worse than that. The CDC actually said not to wear masks.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3303
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Number 6 »

Warren wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 12:14
Highway wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 12:03
Number 6 wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 11:47
nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 09:04
I’m old enough to remember when pro-government types was trying to get pro-mask libertarians suppressed on social media. Because I’m more than three months old.
I try very hard to ignore social media, so I'll own my ignorance here. When did this happen?
I mean, I see the point, because there was a lot of "Don't use up the limited N95 masks that are available, because there are shortages in hospitals" in that March time frame. This was also in the time of "we don't know if masks are effective, so you should stay home and not use one."
It was worse than that. The CDC actually said not to wear masks.
Ah, yes, that part. I tend to think of them as to separate issues, as one wears an N95 as PPE, while the surgical/cloth masks are a more general thing aimed at reducing person to person spread. That being said, I see how that's a fine point that easily gets lost, especially when the CDC spent the first part of this outbreak imitating football-fucking primates.
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
"Come, let us go forth and not rape together"-Jadagul

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 10670
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

Highway wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 12:03
Number 6 wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 11:47
nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 09:04
I’m old enough to remember when pro-government types was trying to get pro-mask libertarians suppressed on social media. Because I’m more than three months old.
I try very hard to ignore social media, so I'll own my ignorance here. When did this happen?
I mean, I see the point, because there was a lot of "Don't use up the limited N95 masks that are available, because there are shortages in hospitals" in that March time frame. This was also in the time of "we don't know if masks are effective, so you should stay home and not use one."
There was also a lot of MASKS WON'T HELP YOU IN FACT THEY WILL MAKE IT WORSE YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO USE MASKS THEY ONLY PROTECT DOCTORS TELLING PEOPLE TO WEAR MASKS IS SUPERSTITIOUS AND RACIST THE WHO AND CDC SAY DON'T WEAR MASKS AND EVERYTHING THAT GOES AGAINST THEM SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE PUBLIC SQUARE

eg



this one was VERY popular




"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3303
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Number 6 »

Much of that was in reference to PPE-that is, N95 type masks. But yes, I do remember that silliness when this first came out. While I understand the WHO and CDC wanting to prevent a run on N95 and, to a lesser extent, surgical masks,* I thought at the time that the implications that masks couldn't help against an airborne virus** were just silly.

*As it was, there were significant shortages. I would have been a lot happier of those organizations had just been more transparent about their motiviatons.
** I know that it took a while before Covid was officially called an airborne threat, but it's just absurd to assume that a person to person transmissible virus that primarily affects the respiratory system would not spread at least by aerosol.
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
"Come, let us go forth and not rape together"-Jadagul

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 10670
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

I mean "silly" is a pretty nice way of saying it but yeah

The important thing is that lol nothing matters, including hundreds of thousands of dead Americans
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 19454
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Hugh Akston »

nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 14:07
The important thing is that lol nothing matters, including hundreds of thousands of dead Americans
Certainly not context, which is why the wearing of masks is now a religious observance and woe unto all heretics.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3303
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Number 6 »

nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 14:07
I mean "silly" is a pretty nice way of saying it but yeah

The important thing is that lol nothing matters, including hundreds of thousands of dead Americans
Every day, I'm closer to agreeing with that last statement.
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
"Come, let us go forth and not rape together"-Jadagul

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 29671
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 14:56
nicole wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 14:07
The important thing is that lol nothing matters, including hundreds of thousands of dead Americans
Certainly not context, which is why the wearing of masks is now a religious observance and woe unto all heretics.
Out here they natives worship a dead guy, Geezsus I think they call him. At any rate most folks this away don't practice the official religion of the USofA so you don't see that many masks.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Jadagul
Posts: 7509
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 18:51

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Jadagul »

Nicole, thanks for rounding up those links. I knew that was a thing but was having trouble finding a bunch of links to the mid-March advice easily, and I need them for a project.

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 25558
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Mo »

I may be wrong but part of the reason that was the guidance before is because for the majority of respiratory diseases, wearing masks when you’re asymptomatic doesn’t do much. So the perceived cost was low, with the benefit of preserving PPE is high. Now it turned out to be wrong because of the nature of the disease, which was less like SARS than expected (read: more contagious), but it was not an unreasonable hypothesis. I think more slack needs to be allowed for the scientific method to play out, even if the initial guidance was wrong.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Jadagul
Posts: 7509
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 18:51

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Jadagul »

Mo wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 19:15
I may be wrong but part of the reason that was the guidance before is because for the majority of respiratory diseases, wearing masks when you’re asymptomatic doesn’t do much. So the perceived cost was low, with the benefit of preserving PPE is high. Now it turned out to be wrong because of the nature of the disease, which was less like SARS than expected (read: more contagious), but it was not an unreasonable hypothesis. I think more slack needs to be allowed for the scientific method to play out, even if the initial guidance was wrong.
The thing is, there's actually not much evidence for what you just said. (And there's been a lot of advice, although mostly not from the CDC itself, pushing against wearing masks even if you _are_ symptomatic because it's too hard to do right.)

Zeynep flagged this tweet by Jeremy Howard about an interview with former WHO advisor Ian Lipkin, who says they had evidence in 2003 that wearing facemasks would protect against SARS and declined to publish it in order to preserve facemask supply for health care workers, which seems like really stunning malpractice.

And then these guidance decisions filtered down to doctors who were given the guidance "wearing masks doesn't help" and they often go around actively discouraging people from wearing masks and arguing that the masks would increase the risk of getting diseases because they're too hard to use.

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 25637
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Jennifer »

It reminds me of something I read about World War Two homefront life in America, Canada and Britain: nowadays much is made of how people back then had "Victory Gardens" which ultimately ended up producing a pretty significant fraction of each country's civilian food/veg consumption -- even city apartment dwellers could garden if they wanted to, by being allotted some space in parkland converted for the duration -- but early in the war, the British government (and IIRC at least one of the other two) even discouraged people from starting home gardens, let alone allow public park land to be repurposed as private veggie gardens, because they worried about a seed shortage, and wanted to save the seeds for experienced professional farmers rather than risk wasting it on amateur gardeners who don't know what they're doing.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 8264
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Shem »

The comparison between WWII war footing activities and mask-wearing is interesting, but not for the reason some people think. My grandfather was a Chief in the Navy when Pearl Harbor happened. He mustanged up at the start of the war, when they suddenly needed a massive influx of new officers. He was in supply, and one of his first jobs as a new Ensign was to take a couple new recruits, gather the sugar collected from the locals as donations for the war effort, load it onto a barge, dump kerosene on it, then take it up into the Strait of Juan de Fuca and dump it. The whole exercise, much like having people collect bacon grease, was nothing but bullshit. I asked my grandmother why went along with it; she said it was because they believed that it still provided value in building morale and keeping people focused on the war effort. To go from there to here in 80 years is a pretty fascinating shift.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25375
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by JasonL »

Can I just say I despise everything about the underlying premises in stories like that. Hey government, hey authority figures, STFU about what you think I might do with actual information, give me actual information and maybe I won't bitch so much about your "expertise".

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 10670
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

Sounds dangerously like you want to think for yourself J
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 29671
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Warren »

JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 08:16
Can I just say I despise everything about the underlying premises in stories like that. Hey government, hey authority figures, STFU about what you think I might do with actual information, give me actual information and maybe I won't bitch so much about your "expertise".
+1
nicole wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 08:31
Sounds dangerously like you want to think for yourself J
Hush you. We don't say these things out loud
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 19454
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Hugh Akston »

So yeah Americans' lack of trust in public institutions is probably due to the republican form of government.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25375
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by JasonL »

I've been mildly obsessed with the credibility crisis angle for most of the year. I see people do this stuff, then they have the audacity to look you in the eye, call you a denier and ask of the cosmos why don't people trust science and experts lol they so dumb. You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 29890
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

JasonL wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 11:40
I've been mildly obsessed with the credibility crisis angle for most of the year. I see people do this stuff, then they have the audacity to look you in the eye, call you a denier and ask of the cosmos why don't people trust science and experts lol they so dumb. You think people don't notice when you tell people they can't go to the beach by themselves but BLM protests are good and necessary? You think nobody notices the tactical guidance on masks? You think that fcking lab coat makes people believe you at this point?
The people who signed that open letter saying protests are OK just shit all over credibility.

Yes, I know, the protesters are outside and many are wearing masks. I freely grant that a protest is safer than a packed nightclub, but that's not saying much. We shut down most of public and commercial life for months and then a bunch of public health researchers sign an open letter saying protests are more important.

The only honest statement they could have made is "Look, protests are dangerous in a pandemic. That's reality. That said, we understand that many people are compelled by conscience to take risks for causes they deem of grave importance. We can't say this is safe, we can only say that this is a risk, so don't take the risk unless conscience compels you, and if conscience does compel you, at least mitigate: Wear a mask, and after a protest self-quarantine."

But they didn't say that. They said that racism is a public health issue so these protests are OK. That's something I'd expect from an astronomer, not a credible public health expert.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo

Post Reply