Random covid-19 observations

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Jennifer
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Jennifer »

dead_elvis wrote:
16 May 2020, 18:28
Jennifer wrote:
16 May 2020, 15:39
Which, by definition, means I would indeed be wearing a mask as a form of "signaling" or "messaging" ... but despite the unavoidable (and sometimes negative) political/social connotations attached to this, it's intended more as thoughtfulness/concern for others, and I'm dismayed to see that very notion being decried as an anti-liberty value.
I used to think I was cynical about people. I thought people could at the very least be counted on to selfishly act in their own interest. That was before finding out that our country seems to be made up of 15 year olds who have been told in front of their friends to wear a bike helmet. If you'd told me even a year ago that not wearing masks in an epidemic was a hill conservatives would choose to charge up, I'd have thought you nuts.

Libertarians should be all about the masks as it is solidly within the NAP under these conditions.
Random observation: when I was going through my Facebook posts the other day to determine the exact date in March that Everything Changed regarding my personal everyday life, I saw that in the early days of "pandemic diary" entries, when school districts were still officially closed for only "two weeks" rather than indefinitely, a few of my earlier posts (such as, describing makeshift face coverings I'd used while venturing out to buy groceries, before I had any masks) got "likes" from people who are now mask truthers .. and at least one whom I know originally responded to news of covid-19 with "it's a Chinese bioweapon" conspiracies, rather than "face masks are a plot to destroy freedom, and only losers comply with requests to wear one when they go out."
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Objectively, we know there are already many people who have contracted COVID-19 but are no longer contagious and probably even more who have not yet contracted it and are obviously therefore not contagious. There are also, however, some people who have contracted it, are asymptomatic but may nonetheless be contagious and we don't know who's who. We also don't know when someone sneezes whether he's a disease vector or just has allergies.

People have a right to be insensitive. Having a right and being right are often two different things.

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lunchstealer
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by lunchstealer »

Hugh Akston wrote:
16 May 2020, 19:35
thoreau wrote:
16 May 2020, 18:35
dead_elvis wrote:
16 May 2020, 18:28
Libertarians should be all about the masks as it is solidly within the NAP under these conditions.
It's also all about taking responsibility for your own health so you don't become a burden.
The CDC explicitly says that wearing a mask is about protecting other people in case you're unknowingly infected. They make no claims about masks protecting the wearer.

Masks should be mandatory for people working in clinical settings or jobs with high traffic or where social distancing is difficult to maintain, like grocery stores or food service. People caring for people suffering with Covid at home should definitely be wearing masks in public. People who are sick should stay home.

But it's not clear that hygiene+social distancing+masks confers any measurable benefit over hygiene+social distancing for people picking up a takeout order or going to the supermarket for 20 minutes, especially if they have already had it or are asymptomatic. Context matters, unless y'all have seen some evidence that I haven't.
That's probably true if you're staying silent, but if you're walking around the store talking non-stop on the phone, you're dumping a lot more into the air. I'm not sure right now that the burden of wearing a mask is so great that we should just say, "Well the evidence isn't crystal clear so fuck it sure we MIGHT be losing an opportunity to reduce the spread of the disease, but meh, y'know?"

At this stage if you're going to be around strangers, just wear a fuckin' mask if at all possible. It's not that hard, and will not hurt anything at all, and might very well cut R0 from 2 to 0.5 and that would be a good thing. Then as we get better understanding of the epidemiology we can give better guidance on when not to bother with a mask.
Also, it takes two to partisan. Uncritically towing the lion that everyone should wear masks in all circumstances is no less partisan than the give me freedom and give me death crowd.
No. It's not. It's just people hearing 'x is good because doctors say it is therefore we should all do it all the time' which is oversimplifying the guidance. But it's not part of some political identity. A lot of people who couldn't tell you who Chuck Schumer is who are all WHY ARE THOSE KIDS NOT WEARING MASKS! Simplistic thinking is just human.

Just because something is oversimplistic and kind of mirrors something that is partisan does not mean that the mirror is equal-and-opposite partisan. There is a partisan subset of Team Red that are just bonered about hating on the poindexters and so they make mask opposition a partisan thing, but not all people who don't want to wear masks are partisan - some just think it's stupid and won't do it because you can't tell them what to do but they don't give a shit about party or trump or obama or any of it. And frankly this wouldn't have been partisan at all 20 years ago. The GOP still had belief in expertise, just not technocracy.

The Tea Party killed off the last of the expertise-Republicans because expertise requires nuance and the Tea Party saw nuance as compromise and were fed up with compromise, and Trump took that and turned it full anti-expertise as a partisan thing instead of just a sentiment that kind of existed.
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thoreau
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

Sort of related, I am saddened by the fact that all of the politics and sociology of COVID-19, both now and in retrospect, will be analyzed through the lens of the Orange One. And while that is part of the partisan divide, as is the Know-Nothing state of the GOP, there is also a basic left-right difference that was in place long before Trump or even the Teabaggers:

Liberals will, ceteris paribis, be more eager to cooperate with the state in a crisis that requires doctors, nurses, and other Public Health types. Conservatives will, ceteris paribis, be more eager to cooperate with the state in a crisis that requires cops, soldiers, and other National Security types. This is, in that sense, the left's 9/11, a crisis that can justify throwing cash at their favorite parts of the state for a few decades.

Yes, plenty of conservatives have put up "God Bless ER Workers!" signs, and plenty of liberals have "We Support The Troops!" signs. But some things are just more integral to self identity on one side than on the other.
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Jennifer
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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Regarding the idea "it takes two to partisan," and whether even partisan/sport-bar stuff should make certain allowances for facts or reality -- in other contexts I've made the analogy/comparison "Of course I oppose 'racism,' as do we all, but for obvious reasons I cannot go so far as to deny any and all race (or skin color)-based differences, including 'My pasty pale self needs FAR more protection from the Georgia summer sun, than my darker neighbors generally do'."

Meanwhile, just a couple days ago one of my nutty anti-mask Facebook acquaintances shared a pre-pandemic list of medical secrets *they* don't want you to know about, including (paraphrase) "Myth: the sun causes cancer. Fact: the sun cures cancer. Sunscreen causes cancer." (Also, fluoridated water supplies are bad.)

I've done "long sleeves, long pants, and sunscreen on all exposed skin" every time I step outside in Georgia daylight, since I moved here almost four years ago and changed my manner of dress to account for being hundreds of miles closer to the equator than I'd ever lived before. And when I made that earlier analogy and imagined someone criticizing my sun-avoidance behaviors, because I base them on racist notions of differing sun tolerance ... I honestly thought I was making a clearly ridiculous joke.

That said, if the mask truthers or anti-Big Pharma advocates or some other group does actually decide "Wearing sunscreen is a partisan act, you're only doing it because you're a racist bigot, or a sheeple who buys into the self-serving advertising for Big Sunscreen, or a coward who's afraid of a little sun, or a liberal anti-Trumper snowflake who only avoids getting tan as a fuck-you to Our President," or whatever ...I'll continue using the products of Big Sunscreen, Big Hat, Big (or at least Long) Sleeve and other now-suddenly-partisan industries, but I am not actually engaging in partisan action myself, and I'm thoroughly fed up with those who insist otherwise despite all evidence to the contrary.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Eric the .5b »

Sure, it takes two to partisan. If one random guy rants about how wearing masks is unmanly/totalitarian or whatever, he's just one nut. You need that second idiot who goes along with him to start having a "side".
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Jasper
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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They're asking us to wear masks in public.

Not step into a boxcar.

ffs.
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Aresen
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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Jennifer wrote:
17 May 2020, 16:19
That said, if the mask truthers or anti-Big Pharma advocates or some other group does actually decide "Wearing sunscreen is a partisan act, you're only doing it because you're a racist bigot, or a sheeple who buys into the self-serving advertising for Big Sunscreen, or a coward who's afraid of a little sun, or a liberal anti-Trumper snowflake who only avoids getting tan as a fuck-you to Our President," or whatever ...I'll continue using the products of Big Sunscreen, Big Hat, Big (or at least Long) Sleeve and other now-suddenly-partisan industries, but I am not actually engaging in partisan action myself, and I'm thoroughly fed up with those who insist otherwise despite all evidence to the contrary.
As opposed to 'Log Cabin Republicans', we could refer to anti-sunscreeners as 'Red Lobster Republicans.'
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Hugh Akston »

This fucking idiot
President Donald Trump claimed Monday he is taking daily doses of hydroxychloroquine, a drug he's long touted as a potential coronavirus cure even as medical experts and the US Food and Drug Administration question its efficacy and warn of potentially harmful side effects.

Speaking at a meeting of restaurant executives, Trump said he began taking the antimalarial drug after consulting the White House doctor, though stopped short of saying his physician had actually recommended the drug.
Trump said he hadn't been exposed, and that he started taking the drug because he had heard from frontline responders who sent him letters saying they were taking it preventatively.

"Here's my evidence: I get a lot of positive calls about it," Trump said.
While Trump admitted he doesn't know if the drug works, he claimed "if it doesn't, you're not going to get sick and die."

The FDA has warned against the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat the novel coronavirus and said they should only be used in hospitals or clinical trials because they can kill or cause serious side effects. These include serious heart rhythm problems in Covid-19 patients treated with the drugs, especially when they are combined with the antibiotic azithromycin or other medications that can affect the heart.
Trump has a common form of heart disease, based on the results of his physical.
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Andrew
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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Hugh Akston wrote:
18 May 2020, 20:23
This fucking idiot
President Donald Trump claimed Monday he is taking daily doses of hydroxychloroquine, a drug he's long touted as a potential coronavirus cure even as medical experts and the US Food and Drug Administration question its efficacy and warn of potentially harmful side effects.

Speaking at a meeting of restaurant executives, Trump said he began taking the antimalarial drug after consulting the White House doctor, though stopped short of saying his physician had actually recommended the drug.
Trump said he hadn't been exposed, and that he started taking the drug because he had heard from frontline responders who sent him letters saying they were taking it preventatively.

"Here's my evidence: I get a lot of positive calls about it," Trump said.
While Trump admitted he doesn't know if the drug works, he claimed "if it doesn't, you're not going to get sick and die."

The FDA has warned against the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat the novel coronavirus and said they should only be used in hospitals or clinical trials because they can kill or cause serious side effects. These include serious heart rhythm problems in Covid-19 patients treated with the drugs, especially when they are combined with the antibiotic azithromycin or other medications that can affect the heart.
Trump has a common form of heart disease, based on the results of his physical.
Truly the dankest timeline.
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Number 6
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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I can't speak to the rest of the country, but I can say that here in the Midwest, in a supposedly cosmopolitan city, the refusal to wear a mask is so widespread that I'm surprised when I do see mask-wearers. This is even true among a few cow-orkers, who work in a health-care field. My disgust at the refusal to do something so simple that could slow this thing down, and at the pretending that there's no problem, and this is just the flu, is reaching a point where I'm no kidding worried for my own mental health. I could go on, but Jennifer and others have said what I would say, but more coherently, and with less profanity.

I'm more or less reaching the "fuck it, let the fire burn, and let the idiots choke on the ashes" point.

Also-besides the common sense stuff, I wear a mask in public indoor spaces because my job means that I have a pretty damn good chance of being a carrier at any given time. I swear, if any of these people say anything about me wearing a mask, I will explain this. With full exhalations. After taking off the mask and stepping closer.
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thoreau
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by thoreau »

Number 6 wrote:
18 May 2020, 23:34
I swear, if any of these people say anything about me wearing a mask, I will explain this. With full exhalations. After taking off the mask and stepping closer.
Evolutionary biologists thank you for your service.
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nicole
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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Andrew wrote:
18 May 2020, 21:06

Truly the dankest timeline.
The one where Hugh trusts the FDA? Tell me about it.
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JasonL
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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My wife has done nigh 100% of going out since I had surgery, so I've only used masks like 3 times. I only use them indoors in public places. If you wear glasses, you can't see anything. I see no way around this.

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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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JasonL wrote:
19 May 2020, 13:13
My wife has done nigh 100% of going out since I had surgery, so I've only used masks like 3 times. I only use them indoors in public places. If you wear glasses, you can't see anything. I see no way around this.
For the extreme, use double sided tape to seal it to your nose and cheeks, and maybe loosen it a bit on the bottom. Yeah, it doesn't "work" as well as a filter then, but it'll still prevent you from spraying into other people, and keep them from spraying things onto your lips.
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Warren »

I have no problem wearing glasses and mask.
Got the 40 to a pack kind of masks. I only go out once a week max, so I consider the masks single use only.
Hook the elastic bands over my ears, pinch the mask onto my nose and put on the glasses.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by lunchstealer »

JasonL wrote:
19 May 2020, 13:13
My wife has done nigh 100% of going out since I had surgery, so I've only used masks like 3 times. I only use them indoors in public places. If you wear glasses, you can't see anything. I see no way around this.
Fogging from breath coming up through the cheek gap?
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JasonL
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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lunchstealer wrote:
19 May 2020, 14:41
JasonL wrote:
19 May 2020, 13:13
My wife has done nigh 100% of going out since I had surgery, so I've only used masks like 3 times. I only use them indoors in public places. If you wear glasses, you can't see anything. I see no way around this.
Fogging from breath coming up through the cheek gap?
Yes.

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nicole
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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If tuck part of/a folded up tissue into the top part of the mask that can help as well.

Fortunately for me, my glasses broke a month ago, so this isn't a problem anymore.

Yes, I have been going around without distance vision correction for a month. It seems to fit in well with the general theme.
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Jennifer
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Jennifer »

Most of my masks have ties rather than ear elastics -- two sets of ties, one each at the top and bottom of the cloth -- and by tying the top one very tightly and arranging the cloth on my nose JUST so, I'm able to ... not eliminate glasses-fog, but get it down to only a little patchiness along the very bottom of the lenses; at worst, the rest of the lens is only slightly fuzzy, not completely opaque.

Although a sudden thought just occurred to me: over the past two months and change, if you actually took, like, measured records of glass-fog levels every time I wear a mask in public, likely you WOULD see a fairly steady decrease ... though you'd ALSO see increases in the air temperature and relative humidity levels too. Maybe my lower levels of "foggishness" lately is also in part because the air itself is warmer and wetter, which gives the lenses a bit of resistance to being fogged? (Related to the concept "You can only see your breath when the temperature is below a certain point.") Not that I ever thought about it much before, but I'd guess that whether glasses fog or not is based not only on how much breath-moisture they're getting, but how cool and dry the lenses are compared to it.

I'll be curious to test this theory in the worst parts of deep summer, when the breath direct out of my mouth is likely cooler and drier than the surrounding atmosphere. In practice, I've mostly just avoided wearing my glasses on the rare times I went to stores -- I can still read, or choose from items on shelves, perfectly well without them, so the only glasses I wear with a mask are sunglasses.
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JasonL
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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I have N95 masks we found in our basement from The Time Before. I think we were painting and my wife got a bunch of them or something. They fog something fierce. Also, kinda stupid with the elastic that goes over your head. I don't understand how the bottom piece of elastic could ever be used. It's supposed to go over your head too but that ... doesn't seem realistic on melon of jasonian dimensions.

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Jennifer
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by Jennifer »

nicole wrote:
19 May 2020, 14:52
Fortunately for me, my glasses broke a month ago, so this isn't a problem anymore.

Yes, I have been going around without distance vision correction for a month. It seems to fit in well with the general theme.
Shit. I've never ordered glasses online (it was on my pre-pandemic "oughtta look into this, one of these days" list), but if you still have your prescription it might be worth ordering a cheap pair. Even if, it turns out, buying glasses online means the frames aren't QUITE what you wanted, compared to frames you can literally, physically try on before you buy them ... still, you need at least ONE working pair of glasses, even if they're not the exact shape, size and style you want.

Do you still have your prescription? Or if not, can you call the optometrist who provided it, and get a copy?
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

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JasonL wrote:
19 May 2020, 14:55
I have N95 masks we found in our basement from The Time Before. I think we were painting and my wife got a bunch of them or something. They fog something fierce. Also, kinda stupid with the elastic that goes over your head. I don't understand how the bottom piece of elastic could ever be used. It's supposed to go over your head too but that ... doesn't seem realistic on melon of jasonian dimensions.
Those sound like the mask I have (bought for painting previously). On mine there is a piece of bendable metal on above the nose area. Bending so it conforms to my nose greatly reduced the foggy glasses issue.

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JasonL
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by JasonL »

Warby Parker is good and cheap relatively speaking. Online orders easy af.

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nicole
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Re: Random covid-19 observations

Post by nicole »

I need a new Rx. I’ve been using my previous one and thinking it’s actually better than the current. I also still have my Rx sunglasses.

My vision is pretty good so it’s just enough to give everything a slightly surreal quality and also I have no depth perception.
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