Universal Corona Income

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JD
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by JD »

...and we have some empirical proof of what happens when you make not working more profitable than working:
When the couple advertised for workers, nearly 100 people applied for just a handful of openings.

The shop had been up and running for only a few months when the coronavirus hit.
...
But even though she had customers, Marietta reluctantly decided to close the coffee shop just over a week ago.

"The very people we hired have now asked us to be laid off," Marietta wrote in a blog post. "Not because they did not like their jobs or because they did not want to work, but because it would cost them literally hundreds of dollars per week to be employed."

With the federal government now offering $600 a week on top of the state's unemployment benefits, she recognized her former employees could make more money staying home than they did on the job.
The article also alludes to another unintended consequence of high unemployment payments: employers don't feel so bad about laying people off.

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Jennifer
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Jennifer »

nicole wrote: 22 Apr 2020, 09:31 *immigrants without a SSN
Which would justify not giving a payment to the immigrant in question, but IMO does NOT justify refusing payment to their American-citizen family members with SSNs. That woman mentioned in the bit I quoted -- a citizen with two citizen children -- even if she doesn't get $1200 for her husband, she still should get it for herself plus the IIRC $500 for each of her kids.
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JD
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by JD »

Jennifer wrote: 23 Apr 2020, 17:41
nicole wrote: 22 Apr 2020, 09:31 *immigrants without a SSN
Which would justify not giving a payment to the immigrant in question, but IMO does NOT justify refusing payment to their American-citizen family members with SSNs. That woman mentioned in the bit I quoted -- a citizen with two citizen children -- even if she doesn't get $1200 for her husband, she still should get it for herself plus the IIRC $500 for each of her kids.
Here's what I don't quite get - if the immigrant husband is filling jointly with his American wife, wouldn't he at least have to have a TIN or ITIN? Is the administration so incredibly petty that's it's actually insisting on SSNs specifically?
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

JD wrote: 23 Apr 2020, 20:24
Jennifer wrote: 23 Apr 2020, 17:41
nicole wrote: 22 Apr 2020, 09:31 *immigrants without a SSN
Which would justify not giving a payment to the immigrant in question, but IMO does NOT justify refusing payment to their American-citizen family members with SSNs. That woman mentioned in the bit I quoted -- a citizen with two citizen children -- even if she doesn't get $1200 for her husband, she still should get it for herself plus the IIRC $500 for each of her kids.
Here's what I don't quite get - if the immigrant husband is filling jointly with his American wife, wouldn't he at least have to have a TIN or ITIN? Is the administration so incredibly petty that's it's actually insisting on SSNs specifically?
The point is to discourage others of pure Aryan ancestry to mix... well, you know where this is going.
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nicole
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by nicole »

JD wrote: 23 Apr 2020, 20:24
Jennifer wrote: 23 Apr 2020, 17:41
nicole wrote: 22 Apr 2020, 09:31 *immigrants without a SSN
Which would justify not giving a payment to the immigrant in question, but IMO does NOT justify refusing payment to their American-citizen family members with SSNs. That woman mentioned in the bit I quoted -- a citizen with two citizen children -- even if she doesn't get $1200 for her husband, she still should get it for herself plus the IIRC $500 for each of her kids.
Here's what I don't quite get - if the immigrant husband is filling jointly with his American wife, wouldn't he at least have to have a TIN or ITIN? Is the administration so incredibly petty that's it's actually insisting on SSNs specifically?
Yes, and it’s extremely fucked up. I just think it’s worth being specific about.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Eric the .5b »

Welp, stimulus check blown on replacing my AC's compressor.
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Warren
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Warren »

Eric the .5b wrote: 15 May 2020, 14:38 Welp, stimulus check blown on replacing my AC's compressor.
??? You could get a whole new unit for that.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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Highway
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Highway »

Warren wrote: 15 May 2020, 15:00
Eric the .5b wrote: 15 May 2020, 14:38 Welp, stimulus check blown on replacing my AC's compressor.
??? You could get a whole new unit for that.
I was guessing car AC.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Eric the .5b »

Highway wrote: 15 May 2020, 15:47
Warren wrote: 15 May 2020, 15:00
Eric the .5b wrote: 15 May 2020, 14:38 Welp, stimulus check blown on replacing my AC's compressor.
??? You could get a whole new unit for that.
I was guessing car AC.
No, home AC.
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Jennifer
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Jennifer »

I'll be spending at least some money on a new battery for my car.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Universal Corona Income

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Trumpland fun bucks have come and gone. $100 each to savings and investment, $500 each to the local food bank and the local mutual aid society.
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JasonL
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Re: Universal Corona Income

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Nice
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Hugh Akston »

I got a letter from the IRS with Big Boy's signature on it saying I may already be a winner of a $1,200 check/gift card. Does that refer to the one I already got, or is there another round coming?
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Highway
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Highway »

Hugh Akston wrote: 01 Jun 2020, 22:38 I got a letter from the IRS with Big Boy's signature on it saying I may already be a winner of a $1,200 check/gift card. Does that refer to the one I already got, or is there another round coming?
The one you got. That's the letter they had to let the toddler send to put his signature on because the IRS can't have him sign the checks.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Hugh Akston »

The $600 unemployment bonus has been a trial run for UBI
But Americans haven't been holding onto this money. They're spending it, and spending it on important things, research suggests. Analysts from the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University that analyzed how people spent their stimulus checks found that individual spending went up for food, household items, and bill payments, including rent, "suggesting that many people were using the funds to obtain necessities and catch up on bills."
Nor has it been a disincentive for Americans to go back to work because, well, they've started going back to work. In May and June, while the unemployment bonus was still operative, American businesses added more jobs than they cut for two straight months. The US added almost 5 million jobs in June as the unemployment rate fell from 13.3% to 11.1%, indicating that the supposed "disincentive" from the unemployment bonus has actually functioned more like a kind of emergency universal basic income, a successful one.
As an aside, there's a weird 21-word H2 about halfway down the page that isn't clearly a pull-quote or a subhead. Not really clear what it is, actually.

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Shem
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Re: Universal Corona Income

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Hugh Akston wrote: 31 Jul 2020, 16:07 The $600 unemployment bonus has been a trial run for UBI
But Americans haven't been holding onto this money. They're spending it, and spending it on important things, research suggests. Analysts from the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University that analyzed how people spent their stimulus checks found that individual spending went up for food, household items, and bill payments, including rent, "suggesting that many people were using the funds to obtain necessities and catch up on bills."
Nor has it been a disincentive for Americans to go back to work because, well, they've started going back to work. In May and June, while the unemployment bonus was still operative, American businesses added more jobs than they cut for two straight months. The US added almost 5 million jobs in June as the unemployment rate fell from 13.3% to 11.1%, indicating that the supposed "disincentive" from the unemployment bonus has actually functioned more like a kind of emergency universal basic income, a successful one.
Reading this sort of article then going on to Reason writing about how extending the extra $600 is a bad idea (justified by 2008 data) was interesting.
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JasonL
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by JasonL »

I definitely think it should be slashed for every twitterian who acted like the $1200 check was all greedy America was doing.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Universal Corona Income

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JasonL wrote: 31 Jul 2020, 17:02 I definitely think it should be slashed for every twitterian who acted like the $1200 check was all greedy America was doing.
What about for people who shared money printer goes brrrr memes?

My guess is that the only people who have been in either camp are people who kept their jobs. I've got friends who've been staying afloat based on that. One lost her job as an office manager at an oil and gas firm as the Saudis, Russians, and COVID-demand-crash killed the industry, and has had exactly one successful interview for a paralegal position, for a firm that insisted on zero work-from-home, everyone in the office, in a hermetically sealed central Dallas high-rise, where people wear masks, 'any time they can't stay six feet apart'. Fortunately her live-in man person, who also lost his job right as things crashed, is starting a new job, and they've been living mostly super frugally so they'll be okay for a good while longer even if this isn't renewed. The other is a set builder/designer for the Dallas Theater Company and Dallas Children's Theater. She's not getting her job back anytime soon, and is pretty much stuck with burger flipping or maybe basic remodeling/construction/carpentry type labor. Neither one has spent a bunch of time going on about how useless the stimulus has been, although all I think reasonably bitched at the big corporate chains managing to get their noses in the small business bailout trough and gobble it all down before most legit small businesses even completed their applications.
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JasonL
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Re: Universal Corona Income

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I’m relatively neutral on extending unemployment as an emergency measure. The idea that this approach represents how things should work forever is profoundly misguided. Printer can go brrr over the short run but a full commitment to forever UBI is astronomically more expensive and would require a funding mechanism
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Shem
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Re: Universal Corona Income

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JasonL wrote: 31 Jul 2020, 18:11 I’m relatively neutral on extending unemployment as an emergency measure. The idea that this approach represents how things should work forever is profoundly misguided. Printer can go brrr over the short run but a full commitment to forever UBI is astronomically more expensive and would require a funding mechanism
If corporations were smart, they'd be pushing for a negative income tax to take some of the fire out of the $15 minimum wage movement.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Universal Corona Income

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JasonL wrote: 31 Jul 2020, 18:11 I’m relatively neutral on extending unemployment as an emergency measure. The idea that this approach represents how things should work forever is profoundly misguided. Printer can go brrr over the short run but a full commitment to forever UBI is astronomically more expensive and would require a funding mechanism
What about the economic fact of modern monetary theory, Jason, if that is your real name? Seriously had that conversation with some ... I think some Grylliader's Facebook friend. Pham was there, and saw the horror.

Wasn't accusing you of being money-printer-go-brrrr guy, or at least not knee-jerk anyway. Anyway yeah and I kind of think that especially given that UBI-as-$600-per-week-unemployment-forever wouldn't even be offset by reduced/removed programs elsewhere, it wouldn't be a sensible UBI anyway, even with a funding mechanism.
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JasonL
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by JasonL »

EITC expansion is an obvious first step so we will never do it.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Universal Corona Income

Post by Pham Nuwen »

My Facebook is always a horror, lunch. When its not funny that is. Still pretty horrible though.
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