This is how you get guillotines

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thoreau
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This is how you get guillotines

Post by thoreau »

A senator started selling stock after her committee got a private briefing on the virus in January. She did buy a few stocks, one of them in a company that sells software for remote work.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly ... g?ref=wrap

Meanwhile, she told the public that the economy is strong and there's nothing to worry about.
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dbcooper
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by dbcooper »

Is that actually illegal for members of Congress to do? It should be.
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Highway
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Highway »

dbcooper wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 00:41
Is that actually illegal for members of Congress to do? It should be.
Yes, it is illegal, based on a 2012(! not any earlier than that) law. And apparently one of the 3 people who voted against it was Richard Burr, who is in hot water because of selling.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Hugh Akston »

I wonder how the various lawmakers who sold off stock before the pandemic will be held accountable. Will they be removed from office for clearly violating the law before they are voted out by angry voters incensed by the abuse of power? My money is on option c) lolololololololol.
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nicole
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by nicole »

You mean during the pandemic, but while the WHO was still covering for China?
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Hugh Akston »

nicole wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:31
You mean during the pandemic, but while the WHO was still covering for China?
No I mean before the pandemic, which the WHO declared on March 11.
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nicole
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

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Hugh Akston wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:42
nicole wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:31
You mean during the pandemic, but while the WHO was still covering for China?
No I mean before the pandemic, which the WHO declared on March 11.
Right, so we're talking about the same thing.
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Aresen »

When it comes to politicians, you can never have enough guillotines.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Hugh Akston »

nicole wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:48
Hugh Akston wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:42
nicole wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:31
You mean during the pandemic, but while the WHO was still covering for China?
No I mean before the pandemic, which the WHO declared on March 11.
Right, so we're talking about the same thing.
Sure, assuming you're referring to the fact that the distinction between 'before' and 'during' has no external referent and is merely an artifact of our linear perception of four-dimensional spacetime.
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JD
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by JD »

Angry FB leftists are saying these pols should go to prison for life. Odd how their concerns about America's prison population and incarceration culture go out the window when their ox is gored.
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Hugh Akston »

Aresen wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:54
When it comes to politicians, you can never have enough guillotines.
That's what the Jacobins thought. Without looking it up I assume everything went okay for them.
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thoreau
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by thoreau »

JD wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 15:04
Angry FB leftists are saying these pols should go to prison for life. Odd how their concerns about America's prison population and incarceration culture go out the window when their ox is gored.
One can believe that fewer things should be punished harshly, but still believe that abuse of power should be one of the exceptions. In fact, one could even make a libertarian case for that stance, and make that case while walking and chewing gum.
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Number 6
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

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JD wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 15:04
Angry FB leftists are saying these pols should go to prison for life. Odd how their concerns about America's prison population and incarceration culture go out the window when their ox is gored.
The prison outrage applies to people. These are politicians we're talking about.
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nicole
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by nicole »

I mean I'm as angry as the next person that I foolishly didn't sell all our investments at the end of January but it seems like the much worse thing these senators did was not destroying the FDA.
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Jennifer
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Jennifer »

IMO, the fact that they sold stock isn't nearly as bad as the fact that they lied and downplayed a potentially deadly virus to uphold their stock value before doing so.
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dead_elvis
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by dead_elvis »

Jennifer wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 15:41
IMO, the fact that they sold stock isn't nearly as bad as the fact that they lied and downplayed a potentially deadly virus to uphold their stock value before doing so.
I agree. Burr's crime isn't selling, Burr's crime was sounding the alarm only to a small group of rich connected constituents, knowing that his party was downplaying it publicly.
The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee warned a small group of well-connected constituents three weeks ago to prepare for dire economic and societal effects of the coronavirus, according to a secret recording obtained by NPR.

The remarks from U.S. Sen. Richard Burr were more stark than any he had delivered in more public forums.
Also, let's not forget about "first up against the wall". Just because guillotines are fashionable at the moment, don't neglect the classics.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Eric the .5b »

dead_elvis wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 17:25
Also, let's not forget about "first up against the wall". Just because guillotines are fashionable at the moment, don't neglect the classics.
And it has the virtue of reminding the listener not to get too enthusiastic, because the question of who goes up against the wall after the first batch has interesting answers.
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JD
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by JD »

thoreau wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 15:09
One can believe that fewer things should be punished harshly, but still believe that abuse of power should be one of the exceptions. In fact, one could even make a libertarian case for that stance, and make that case while walking and chewing gum.
Life in prison for what amounts to insider trading, though? As I've said before, they don't so much think that we imprison too many people or for too long, they just think it's the wrong people.
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thoreau
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by thoreau »

I'm not going to support life imprisonment here, but I'm also not going to fault someone too much for an emotional reaction to a SENATOR (somebody whose duty is to the public) trading on info obtained in their official duties. Especially if they are telling the public that this is no big deal.

A Senator should* get a stiffer punishment for this than a person in the private sector would. That stiffer punishment shouldn't be handed down by a Facebook commenter in the midst of a sudden wave of outrage, but there's a valid sentiment under that. I'm not writing off all lefty criminal justice reform sentiments just because people got pissed at an abuse of power in the upper tiers of power.

*This is an "ought" statement about the rules I'd like to see, not an "is" statement about the application of existing law, nor is it a complete description of the legislation I'd like to see written. Insert all necessary disclaimers about how the actual laws implementing this notion would no doubt need a lot of details and whatnot. Insert all necessary disclaimers about how I don't know if such laws would be constitutional.
Last edited by thoreau on 20 Mar 2020, 19:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Jennifer
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Jennifer »

JD wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 18:59
thoreau wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 15:09
One can believe that fewer things should be punished harshly, but still believe that abuse of power should be one of the exceptions. In fact, one could even make a libertarian case for that stance, and make that case while walking and chewing gum.
Life in prison for what amounts to insider trading, though?
Possibly for an elected official deliberately and knowingly misleading the public (including his own constituents, save for a handful of particularly rich and well-connected ones), by deliberately playing down a potentially serious and occasionally fatal illness for his own gain. Like I said upthread, the stock sale isn't even the main problem (at least morally; hellafino what the law says).
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dbcooper
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by dbcooper »

Highway wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 07:40
dbcooper wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 00:41
Is that actually illegal for members of Congress to do? It should be.
Yes, it is illegal, based on a 2012(! not any earlier than that) law. And apparently one of the 3 people who voted against it was Richard Burr, who is in hot water because of selling.
Ha ha ha. Thanks for the clarification.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

The way to punish people like Burr is to take away their money and prohibit them from holding public office. Prison isn't necessary.

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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by lunchstealer »

Hugh Akston wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 15:07
Aresen wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 14:54
When it comes to politicians, you can never have enough guillotines.
That's what the Jacobins thought. Without looking it up I assume everything went okay for them.
The Jacobins were French politicians, right?
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Shem
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Re: This is how you get guillotines

Post by Shem »

Eric the .5b wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 18:35
dead_elvis wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 17:25
Also, let's not forget about "first up against the wall". Just because guillotines are fashionable at the moment, don't neglect the classics.
And it has the virtue of reminding the listener not to get too enthusiastic, because the question of who goes up against the wall after the first batch has interesting answers.
If there's one thing the "he's not hurting the right people" reaction has driven home to me, it's just how many people are part of the "self-reflection is for people who it could happen to" brigade.
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