Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

nicole wrote:
19 Jun 2020, 15:16
Yup

PS the lakefront is still officially closed (but bars aren’t!) and you’re definitely not supposed to think that’s because your rulers hate you
Of course not. You're supposed to think "It's because opening the bars will generate some direct tax revenue for your rulers to play with, but opening the lakefront will not."
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dead_elvis
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by dead_elvis »

I try to consciously avoid wishful thinking so I don't fall for false hope crap about a vaccine being available in time to head off the worst case scenarios, but I really did hope that antibody plasma or other antibody treatment was going to be a widely available cure by now or at least soon. Still seems promising but a long ways off, just like everything else. Tired of hearing positive news that has no benefit until next year.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne ... s-covid-19
Scripps Research in La Jolla has discovered a handful of human antibodies that neutralize the novel coronavirus in cell cultures and hamsters, a possible step toward creating a drug to fight a virus that has killed nearly 118,000 people nationwide this year.

The discovery, published this week in the journal Science, could lead to drug trials in humans in early 2021, and perhaps sooner, Scripps says.

Immunologist Dennis Burton found the potentially useful antibodies in the blood of patients who have recovered from COVID-19. He was conducting the kind of search that’s rapidly being carried out around the world. Scientists say they might be able to develop drug-based antibodies against COVID-19 faster than they can create a vaccine.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Getting accurate antibody tests would be a major step in the right direction.
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

Even if all proper tests were widely available, there's still the problem of people clinging to the mentality that the very idea "covid-19 is worth taking seriously enough to institute some changes" is proof of stupidity, or worse. Like this shit:



(For those who can't see Facebook, it's an all-text graphic offering "The covid-19 solution" over two lists: the "Afraid" list says "stay home, video conference, order curbside or delivery, wear a mask and/or gloves" and the "not afraid list" is "Go to work, go to school, shop at stores, eat at restaurants, worship at church, travel & vacation, go to ballgames, fish & hunt, take kids to parks, host/go to parties, enjoy life," then followed by "you do you, I'll do me."
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dead_elvis
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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How about this? So we can put this thing behind us?
People *really* don't want to be aware of how their actions affect other people. Put this behind us? WTF. I can't "put this thing behind us" until we can have large 1,000+ gatherings at concerts including old people. Enough people following his "I'll do me" murdered my entire industry, so fuck you very much Mr. Barry Hess.
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Houston ICUs filling up after surge in covid-19 hospitalizations

https://www.chron.com/local/article/Hou ... 353381.php
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote:
20 Jun 2020, 02:00
Houston ICUs filling up after surge in covid-19 hospitalizations

https://www.chron.com/local/article/Hou ... 353381.php
WAGTD. Or I am.
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nicole
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by nicole »

Jennifer wrote:
19 Jun 2020, 19:15
Even if all proper tests were widely available, there's still the problem of people clinging to the mentality that the very idea "covid-19 is worth taking seriously enough to institute some changes" is proof of stupidity, or worse. Like this shit:



(For those who can't see Facebook, it's an all-text graphic offering "The covid-19 solution" over two lists: the "Afraid" list says "stay home, video conference, order curbside or delivery, wear a mask and/or gloves" and the "not afraid list" is "Go to work, go to school, shop at stores, eat at restaurants, worship at church, travel & vacation, go to ballgames, fish & hunt, take kids to parks, host/go to parties, enjoy life," then followed by "you do you, I'll do me."
I mean I’m fine for this policy as long as we suspend EMTALA and property taxes.
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Mo
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Highway »

Mo wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 16:40
We’re fucked.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/larry-k ... oming.html
Does Trump just keep Kudlow around because then he can point to him and say "There's a guy who's wrong more than me!" Well, if Trump were to ever admit he was wrong, which I don't think he ever has.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Hugh Akston »

Taiwan, Singapore, and Korea have managed Covid much better than the US not because their people trust the government more, but because their governments are more trustworthy.
What, in other words, has largely been dismissed as either an effect of draconian surveillance or an expression of sheeplike obedience—or both—is that these Asian governments have earned their citizens' trust with a record of public investment and accountability. In the case of the response to the new coronavirus, some of this trust was predicated on the government's rapid and competent rollout of preventative measures. South Korea immediately introduced simple, pervasive Covid-19 testing, and Taiwan was putting health officials with diagnostic equipment onto incoming flights from Wuhan as early as January. Some of it has to do with the basic confidence inspired by a strong social safety net: People can “trust” that seeking treatment won't bankrupt them—both countries have extremely reliable national health care systems—and that they can stay home from work without finding themselves unable to pay for their daily needs. In Taiwan, people quarantining at home are given a stipend of $33 per day. If they don't have space to quarantine, they are directed to hotels; refusal to comply is punished with fines that run to tens of thousands of dollars. It's not that the government measures have worked because people are naturally cooperative and responsible; people are cooperative and responsible because the government measures have worked.
Over the past few decades, political scientists have come to articulate a concept of trust that is not a fixed property of a given culture or society. Margaret Levi, the director of the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences at Stanford, has proposed that we wean ourselves from talking about “trust” as a primary concept and instead talk about “trustworthiness.” As Henry Farrell puts it in his book The Political Economy of Trust, drawing on the work of Levi and the late Russell Hardin, “trust pertains to relationships with specific others over specific matters” (italics in original)—that is, trust is not some ambient property of a system but a way to describe and evaluate the expectations that condition and color our relationships, expectations determined by mutual understanding and candid negotiation. The upshot of this view is that “trust” is not an explanation for behavioral phenomena but is itself a behavioral phenomenon that needs to be explained.
Also includes a nice little anecdote
When a young boy called into the national pandemic help hotline—a call center with an extremely high immediate-pickup rate—to complain that, anticipating ridicule, he was afraid to wear a pink mask, the next day's pandemic task force press conference saw every public health representative in a pink mask.
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Jadagul
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Yeah, the problem with trust is that it's a loop. Americans don't have a lot of trust in our governmental institutions, because they kinda suck. So we don't want to give them a lot of resources, or cooperate with them readily. But lack of resources and cooperation is one of the reasons the institutions suck!

But you can't fix that problem just by giving them resources and cooperating with them. First, because you can't "just" have everyone cooperate. And second, because even if you give them resources, they _still suck_, and they will use those resources badly.

(This comes up a lot in discussions of transit planning. If you're only gonna build one train, people want to make it go everywhere and cover everything, and it can only do that slowly and badly. And then no one uses the train, and it wasn't worth the money spent to build it, so it's hard to convince anyone to fund another one. If you just built the first train in a small, constrained route that would actually get used, it's way more likely that you'd get to _build another train_.)

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Mo
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Singapore government is really well run. I applied for my employment pass a week ago Friday and got the approval today. I submitted vaccine records for Dojoto and Mojito and got verification of their vaccine records the next day. All in the midst of covid lockdowns. There is nothing in state or federal government in the US that works that well.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Shem
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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The people who complain about the government not working well are usually the ones who will tell you about the salutary effects of a system designed to make the government work less well by setting up the pieces in opposition to each other.
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Jadagul
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Oh sure. But your plan for making the government work better has to account for the fact that those people exist, somehow.

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Shem
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Shem »

Jadagul wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 22:04
Oh sure. But your plan for making the government work better has to account for the fact that those people exist, somehow.
Considering we're one of the only countries in the world with a government set up with the goal of creating oppositional power bases at ever major level of government, I don't think it's quite as difficult as you're implying. I mean, I certainly believe our system of government has charms, but it's a little odd to see people complaining about how the US government isn't very good at doing things quickly when "being not very good at doing things quickly" was what the Framers were after.
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Jadagul
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Shem wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 22:34
Jadagul wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 22:04
Oh sure. But your plan for making the government work better has to account for the fact that those people exist, somehow.
Considering we're one of the only countries in the world with a government set up with the goal of creating oppositional power bases at ever major level of government, I don't think it's quite as difficult as you're implying. I mean, I certainly believe our system of government has charms, but it's a little odd to see people complaining about how the US government isn't very good at doing things quickly when "being not very good at doing things quickly" was what the Framers were after.
It's a little hard given the system that we have.

Like, yes, the design of our government has some serious technical issues that are clear after more than two centuries of experience with government design. My point was that if you want to make things work better, if you're not advocating for a new constitutional convention, you have to explain how your plan will work _despite_ those serious technical issues.

However, I see that I misread you originally. I had interpreted you as saying that the people who complain about the government not working well are the ones who work to make it not work well. Which is to a large extent true, but isn't what you said if I'm reading you right now. You're just observing that the same people will (1) complain the government doesn't work well and (2) talk about how good it is that the government doesn't work well, in different situations.

In conclusion
P.J. O'Rourke wrote: The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by lunchstealer »

Mo wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 18:41
Singapore government is really well run. I applied for my employment pass a week ago Friday and got the approval today. I submitted vaccine records for Dojoto and Mojito and got verification of their vaccine records the next day. All in the midst of covid lockdowns. There is nothing in state or federal government in the US that works that well.
I got a fresh copy of my birth cert within a few days despite it having to be mailed across the country. That seems like the kind of thing that should take an unnaturally long time in a state bureaucracy.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Warren »

lunchstealer wrote:
23 Jun 2020, 12:58
Mo wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 18:41
Singapore government is really well run. I applied for my employment pass a week ago Friday and got the approval today. I submitted vaccine records for Dojoto and Mojito and got verification of their vaccine records the next day. All in the midst of covid lockdowns. There is nothing in state or federal government in the US that works that well.
I got a fresh copy of my birth cert within a few days despite it having to be mailed across the country. That seems like the kind of thing that should take an unnaturally long time in a state bureaucracy.
huh
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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I don't think the issue of oppositional power bases is as much of an issue as the post great society accountability and sphere of control squish. States suck in significant part because there are national programs that they get to blame for local problems. People in general have national views of problems and won't let this state or that "fall behind" due to lack of federal supports. You get federal funding, oversight, regulatory bodies and so forth as a crutch, and the national discussion focuses on federal politics because it's easier to see Bad Guy / Good Guy in the office of the executive. It's not that federalism is dumb it's that we won't actually allow it to function such that localities are seen as primarily accountable for local outcomes. The model to consider might be the Swiss Cantonic system in which yeah man the cantons are very very different and do most stuff and are accountable for most stuff. So Cantons are oppositonal power bases but also do their own things with education and such and nobody thinks the feds should override them.

At the Federal level, the accountability squish is congress abdicating in favor of both regulatory bodies and executive power.

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Shem
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Shem »

JasonL wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 09:29
I don't think the issue of oppositional power bases is as much of an issue as the post great society accountability and sphere of control squish. States suck in significant part because there are national programs that they get to blame for local problems. People in general have national views of problems and won't let this state or that "fall behind" due to lack of federal supports. You get federal funding, oversight, regulatory bodies and so forth as a crutch, and the national discussion focuses on federal politics because it's easier to see Bad Guy / Good Guy in the office of the executive. It's not that federalism is dumb it's that we won't actually allow it to function such that localities are seen as primarily accountable for local outcomes. The model to consider might be the Swiss Cantonic system in which yeah man the cantons are very very different and do most stuff and are accountable for most stuff. So Cantons are oppositonal power bases but also do their own things with education and such and nobody thinks the feds should override them.

At the Federal level, the accountability squish is congress abdicating in favor of both regulatory bodies and executive power.
None of that is inconsistent with what I said.
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JasonL
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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No, it's more of a clarification in my view that distributed and oppositional power isn't structurally a problem if accountability lines are clear.

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Shem
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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JasonL wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 10:16
No, it's more of a clarification in my view that distributed and oppositional power isn't structurally a problem if accountability lines are clear.
But the whole point of the US system of checks and balances is that they aren't clear, and that the people are supposedly protected by the different power bases constantly pushing against each other for supremacy.
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JasonL
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Bluntly we have insisted that the feds do things that we once thought it was pretty clear they weren't supposed to do. Because outcomes.

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Warren »

JasonL wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 10:56
Bluntly we have insisted that the feds do things that we once thought it was pretty clear they weren't supposed to do. Because outcomes.
That's foundational to libertarian politics. The government is doing too much, especially the federal government. And pretty much all politicians think it's their job to find more things for the government to do.
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