Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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dead_elvis
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by dead_elvis »

Warren wrote:
27 Jul 2020, 13:41
So, in a year's time India is going to come out the other end of this with a reduced unproductive elderly population and middle class flush with inheritance from their recently deceased parents. A population with generally robust health, and some inherited afflictions weeded out. And likely some upgrades to their hospitals and health care system. They already have a world class tech industry. If they can keep themselves from killing each other, they'll be the envy of the world.
Careful, that silver lining can be blinding.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

If it's happening in India, it's happening in Pakistan. If it's happening in India and Pakistan, it's a given that India is blaming Pakistan and Pakistan is blaming India. If nothing else, it's further proof that a people who believe either in a glorious afterlife or reincarnation should probably not be in possession of nuclear weapons.

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by lunchstealer »

Should we be comparing COVID more to polio than to flu? The long-term disability thing seems to be a big deal, probably a lot bigger than just fatalities. Or do we just not remember polio enough?
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

A link for those (currently only US residents) who may wish to volunteer for one of the COVID-19 clinical studies.

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Mo
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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I mean I know it’s the stupid baseball head but this has to be the worst fucking take. Germany is concerned about COVID with 1/15th the number of daily cases and 4x the population of FL. Why is the right so in love with DeSantis?

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lunchstealer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Mo wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 13:27
I mean I know it’s the stupid baseball head but this has to be the worst fucking take. Germany is concerned about COVID with 1/15th the number of daily cases and 4x the population of FL. Why is the right so in love with DeSantis?

He makes the libs angry and this is the highest form of Yang worship.
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Mo
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Mo »

McConnell on their new COVID bill 2 days ago: "Republicans are ready to govern"
McConnell now:
Image

The only good thing about this is that this fuckup raises the odds of McConnell losing from 0.5% to possibly a full 1% chance.
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nicole
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Mo wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 13:27
I mean I know it’s the stupid baseball head but this has to be the worst fucking take. Germany is concerned about COVID with 1/15th the number of daily cases and 4x the population of FL. Why is the right so in love with DeSantis?
I's hard for me to blame them when I regularly here people at work shit-talking him within 2 seconds of saying "I can't understand why cases in California are rising." You have no idea the extent to which DeSantis specifically has been scapegoated by the NYC/national media. People who say "isn't DeSantis the governor of Floria?" in the same breath as "omg DeSantis is TERRIBLE."
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Mo
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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I mean it’s pretty clear you can hold the idea that SoCal opened the tap wide open too early, AZ, TX, FL and GA went hog wild way too early, and Deblasio is the worst in your head. I think part of it is also that DeSantis and the right media were taking victory laps a month ago.

FWIW, I think the critique that Cuomo was slow to act is a much fairer one than the nursing home one. The nursing home decision was a fog of war triage because hospitals were overloaded and we didn’t know what was happening. Waiting until March 17 was inexcusable. I say this from the U.K. where we closed down 5 days later too.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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I mean, I do hold all those ideas in my head but the media is run by low-info Blue morons.
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Mo
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Sure, but if your response is “hur hur, Germany and Japan have rising cases too, is that DeSantis’ fault,” then you don’t help your side at all (except with low info red morons).
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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I know, that's why my only response is, "thank god I got an IUD in February."
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dead_elvis
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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It's the rhetoric, and I think as much as we here think they shouldn't, people pay attention and play follow the political leader. Apparently people care if the leader is at least looking like they are trying. People see a difference between trying but making mistakes and just being all "hey, we sort of half-closed for nowhere near long enough, guess that didn't work so full speed ahead and damn the torpedos"

As for the NY/Cuomo Bros. thing, I stopped by Fox News and their accusations of hypocrisy hinge on the death talley; but that is, I believe, no longer the relevant metric. Since we've gotten better at treating and more healthier people are the ones getting infected, the problem isn't as much death as long term health consequences; in which case total cases is the important number. (eta tho I do agree with what Mo said about it)

It's becoming completely clear that not getting it at all is far better than getting it and recovering; yet the Rs are the ones *still* pushing the re-open and masks optional party line.
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nicole
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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dead_elvis wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 12:32
It's the rhetoric, and I think as much as we here think they shouldn't, people pay attention and play follow the political leader. Apparently people care if the leader is at least looking like they are trying. People see a difference between trying but making mistakes and just being all "hey, we sort of half-closed for nowhere near long enough, guess that didn't work so full speed ahead and damn the torpedos"

As for the NY/Cuomo Bros. thing, I stopped by Fox News and their accusations of hypocrisy hinge on the death talley; but that is, I believe, no longer the relevant metric. Since we've gotten better at treating and more healthier people are the ones getting infected, the problem isn't as much death as long term health consequences; in which case total cases is the important number. (eta tho I do agree with what Mo said about it)

It's becoming completely clear that not getting it at all is far better than getting it and recovering; yet the Rs are the ones *still* pushing the re-open and masks optional party line.
I don't see NYC's crime as being about their death counts, but about the fact that the deBlasio administration actively encouraged the seeding of the first American outbreak so big it made containment impossible.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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I think the whole blame X person in charge is probably a general waste of time. It seems like people are putting way too much stock in the government being able to do anything meaningful to control things. Even if the person in charge happens to have a "great plan" the citizenry is going to do their own thing if they don't see eye to eye with it. On the flip side if the government puts forth a "bad plan" the citizenry will take steps to mitigate the things they see as risky up to a point likely ending up in the exact same place if the government had advanced a "good plan."

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Painboy wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:01
I think the whole blame X person in charge is probably a general waste of time. It seems like people are putting way too much stock in the government being able to do anything meaningful to control things. Even if the person in charge happens to have a "great plan" the citizenry is going to do their own thing if they don't see eye to eye with it. On the flip side if the government puts forth a "bad plan" the citizenry will take steps to mitigate the things they see as risky up to a point likely ending up in the exact same place if the government had advanced a "good plan."
I would be more amenable to that view if we didn't have examples of governments in other countries making and implementing plans that effectively controlled the spread of the virus and allowed them to target quarantines and safely/intelligently reopen their economies.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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We've seen plenty of situations where, even if it's not absolutely everyone in the country going along with it, the President has been able to be a unifying and inspiring force, for good or ill. In this situation, a president who had the wherewithal to actually follow a plan, to recognize what was going on, to react to what the weaknesses in his plan were, and adjust, could have had a significantly better effect on the country.

Trump is not that. It's not even that he and his administration had a not-as-good plan. It's that there was no plan, in fact an anti-plan. The plan was to just screw around, say it's all fine, and do nothing. When that didn't work, get some people who actually do know something about it, but then not follow what they'd say, and kneecap them when they made the boss look bad.

Honestly, people wanted someone to follow. If there had been any kind of leadership, it would have been followed to a very large degree. Trump couldn't lead a middle school clique. It just follows him because he's the biggest, flashiest guy.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Highway wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:19
We've seen plenty of situations where, even if it's not absolutely everyone in the country going along with it, the President has been able to be a unifying and inspiring force, for good or ill. In this situation, a president who had the wherewithal to actually follow a plan, to recognize what was going on, to react to what the weaknesses in his plan were, and adjust, could have had a significantly better effect on the country.

Trump is not that. It's not even that he and his administration had a not-as-good plan. It's that there was no plan, in fact an anti-plan. The plan was to just screw around, say it's all fine, and do nothing. When that didn't work, get some people who actually do know something about it, but then not follow what they'd say, and kneecap them when they made the boss look bad.

Honestly, people wanted someone to follow. If there had been any kind of leadership, it would have been followed to a very large degree. Trump couldn't lead a middle school clique. It just follows him because he's the biggest, flashiest guy.
His one good-ish or at least semi-defensibly anti-virus move, to close the nation to flights from China, seems to have been motivated by his animus against China/non-pro-Trump-foreigners rather than actual concern for potential victims if it did spread.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Highway wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:19
We've seen plenty of situations where, even if it's not absolutely everyone in the country going along with it, the President has been able to be a unifying and inspiring force, for good or ill. In this situation, a president who had the wherewithal to actually follow a plan, to recognize what was going on, to react to what the weaknesses in his plan were, and adjust, could have had a significantly better effect on the country.

Trump is not that. It's not even that he and his administration had a not-as-good plan. It's that there was no plan, in fact an anti-plan. The plan was to just screw around, say it's all fine, and do nothing. When that didn't work, get some people who actually do know something about it, but then not follow what they'd say, and kneecap them when they made the boss look bad.

Honestly, people wanted someone to follow. If there had been any kind of leadership, it would have been followed to a very large degree. Trump couldn't lead a middle school clique. It just follows him because he's the biggest, flashiest guy.
Yeah. I mean, we had one 9/11, and it was enough to buy five years of compliance, even when that compliance was a terrible idea. We've now had the equivalent of 50 9/11s, and and nothing, largely because at the beginning, the guy who was supposed to take point decided he'd rather pass the buck.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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The irony is that the pandemic is basically tailor made for a competent person with Trump’s background to clean up. Thank God he’s a fucking moron.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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How are pandemics tailor-made for real estate developers with TV experience to shine?
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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His platform was xenophobia and autarchy.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Mo wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 19:21
His platform was xenophobia and autarchy.
Oh, you mean clean up in the electoral college, not actually clean up the problem. Yeah, agreed. If he'd shown the resolve to act swiftly, consistently, and repeatedly, he could have demagogued the fuck out of this. Instead he tweeted and whined.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Aresen »

thoreau wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 19:30
Mo wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 19:21
His platform was xenophobia and autarchy.
Oh, you mean clean up in the electoral college, not actually clean up the problem. Yeah, agreed. If he'd shown the resolve to act swiftly, consistently, and repeatedly, he could have demagogued the fuck out of this. Instead he tweeted and whined.
This is what we are seeing in Canada. The Trudeau government is rotting before our eyes. Last year, there was the SNC Lavalin scandal and the Blackface foofahrah. Before that, he got a little too chummy with the Aga Khan. Now he's involved in the WE scandal (tl:dr - his mother and brother as well as his Minister of Finance got paid by an organization that subsequently got a $1 billion government contract). But Trudeau continues to be popular because he has mostly taken appropriate action on the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Hugh Akston wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:10
Painboy wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:01
I think the whole blame X person in charge is probably a general waste of time. It seems like people are putting way too much stock in the government being able to do anything meaningful to control things. Even if the person in charge happens to have a "great plan" the citizenry is going to do their own thing if they don't see eye to eye with it. On the flip side if the government puts forth a "bad plan" the citizenry will take steps to mitigate the things they see as risky up to a point likely ending up in the exact same place if the government had advanced a "good plan."
I would be more amenable to that view if we didn't have examples of governments in other countries making and implementing plans that effectively controlled the spread of the virus and allowed them to target quarantines and safely/intelligently reopen their economies.
If all those areas that have had lower impact from the virus all did the same thing there might be a useful correlation there, but that's not really been the case. Countries have employed a great deal of different strategies and it's not clear which ones actually work consistently. Culture, geography, genetics, different virus strains, there's a lot of factors that could likely contribute to the differences in outcomes.

I think there's a lot of survivorship bias going on right now.

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