And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

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Warren
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 03 Oct 2019, 18:50

Shem wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 18:06
Mo wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 17:58
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 16:36
Everything I’ve read is he delivered the message based on policy that came from State.
He was more than a message boy. He was the point man. Which is not to say he had carte blanche to do whatever. But still
Source?
He was senior Ukraine dude in the administration. Which does nothing whatsoever to change the fact that Warren is conflating "the appearance of impropriety" from Biden with "actual, demonstrable impropriety from the Trumps," but whatever.
Yeah well. When every breathing journalist spends their waking hours for three years trying to dig up dirt on the Bidens and it still only amounts to "appearance", you'll have a point.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Mo » 03 Oct 2019, 19:02

Because it’s not like the opposition party investigated everything that the Obama administration did that was within a country mile of shady and yet did nothing about investigating Biden despite Hunter Biden’s role being public knowledge. Hence my comment about the curious behavior of the dog.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Shem » 03 Oct 2019, 19:23

Mo wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 19:02
Because it’s not like the opposition party investigated everything that the Obama administration did that was within a country mile of shady and yet did nothing about investigating Biden despite Hunter Biden’s role being public knowledge. Hence my comment about the curious behavior of the dog.
Or like Republican Senators, the bulk of the EU, and anticorruption advocates of all stripes were advocating for exactly the thing Biden did that supposedly makes him worth investigating.

This is what I was talking about; the steadfast, unshakable conviction that both sides are exactly, equally as bad as each other despite seemingly not actually having done any of the research to back up that assessment.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 03 Oct 2019, 20:15

Let's assume worst-case shenanigans from Biden. What happens then? His son gets advance notice the axe is about to fall, resigns, lets the dust settle and finds another phony-baloney do-nothing job for having his dad on what might still have been called speed-dial back then. This is absolutely, positively 100% how pols cash in while they're still in office. Their kids get into elite schools, probably with scholarships because who can send a kid to Yale on a Vice President's salary, amirite? Their spouse gets on plenty of artsy or charity foundation boards and mingles with the rich and not very famous, all the while, the wealth and the fame get to play footsie under the table. The pol actually leaves office and suddenly there are defense contractors and energy companies and law firms and foreign kleptocrats just dying to throw money at them in return for the occasional phone call or cocktail party chat about what this regulatory agency is doing or the wording of that piece of legislation or when is that pork going to be delivered ad nauseum. This is absolutely business as usual in Washington and it's a nonpartisan equal opportunity crony capitalism game in which everybody and especially their families get to play. Ho hum.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 03 Oct 2019, 20:28

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:15
Let's assume worst-case shenanigans from Biden. What happens then? His son gets advance notice the axe is about to fall, resigns, lets the dust settle and finds another phony-baloney do-nothing job for having his dad on what might still have been called speed-dial back then. This is absolutely, positively 100% how pols cash in while they're still in office. Their kids get into elite schools, probably with scholarships because who can send a kid to Yale on a Vice President's salary, amirite? Their spouse gets on plenty of artsy or charity foundation boards and mingles with the rich and not very famous, all the while, the wealth and the fame get to play footsie under the table. The pol actually leaves office and suddenly there are defense contractors and energy companies and law firms and foreign kleptocrats just dying to throw money at them in return for the occasional phone call or cocktail party chat about what this regulatory agency is doing or the wording of that piece of legislation or when is that pork going to be delivered ad nauseum. This is absolutely business as usual in Washington and it's a nonpartisan equal opportunity crony capitalism game in which everybody and especially their families get to play. Ho hum.
Exactly.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Shem » 03 Oct 2019, 21:16

Warren wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:28
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:15
Let's assume worst-case shenanigans from Biden. What happens then? His son gets advance notice the axe is about to fall, resigns, lets the dust settle and finds another phony-baloney do-nothing job for having his dad on what might still have been called speed-dial back then. This is absolutely, positively 100% how pols cash in while they're still in office. Their kids get into elite schools, probably with scholarships because who can send a kid to Yale on a Vice President's salary, amirite? Their spouse gets on plenty of artsy or charity foundation boards and mingles with the rich and not very famous, all the while, the wealth and the fame get to play footsie under the table. The pol actually leaves office and suddenly there are defense contractors and energy companies and law firms and foreign kleptocrats just dying to throw money at them in return for the occasional phone call or cocktail party chat about what this regulatory agency is doing or the wording of that piece of legislation or when is that pork going to be delivered ad nauseum. This is absolutely business as usual in Washington and it's a nonpartisan equal opportunity crony capitalism game in which everybody and especially their families get to play. Ho hum.
Exactly.
Which is fundamentally not what the Trump family is doing.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 03 Oct 2019, 23:16

You got to do better than Esquire.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Shem » 04 Oct 2019, 01:40

Warren wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 23:16
You got to do better than Esquire.
Politico

You want to address the argument now, or just stick with the ad hominem?
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 04 Oct 2019, 09:28

Shem wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 01:40
Warren wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 23:16
You got to do better than Esquire.
Politico

You want to address the argument now, or just stick with the ad hominem?
RTFA It's a list of allegations that even if true are no less ho hum that the Bidens.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Mo » 04 Oct 2019, 10:08

So foreign governments are putting money directly into Joe Biden’s pocket?

ETA: Also, the Kushner Qatar stuff is way shadier than the other stuff
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 04 Oct 2019, 11:27

Mo wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 10:08
So foreign governments are putting money directly into Joe Biden’s pocket?
What? Burisma Holdings and his son's pockets are like a magic laundromat?
ETA: Also, the Kushner Qatar stuff is way shadier than the other stuff
how so?
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Mo » 04 Oct 2019, 15:22

Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
04 Oct 2019, 10:08
So foreign governments are putting money directly into Joe Biden’s pocket?
What? Burisma Holdings and his son's pockets are like a magic laundromat?
ETA: Also, the Kushner Qatar stuff is way shadier than the other stuff
how so?
Yes, I judge people by their actions. Bill isn’t liable for Roger Clinton’s shenanigans, Jimmy isn’t responsible for Billy Carter’s crap. Unless there’s evidence that Biden didn’t do anything wrong, then his hands are clean. There is the appearance of impropriety and Biden should have recused himself from it, but so far investigations have yielded nothing that comes close to implicating Biden. But who knows, I’m sure Jacob Wohl has something up his sleeve.

Kushner was handling the ME portfolio for the administration, both he and DJT supported the blockade of Qatar despite it being the home of the basing hub for CENTCOM and most of our democratic allies opposing the blockade. They supported the blockade until April 2018, when Pompeo told the Saudis it was time to end the blockade. Magically, the Qatari sovereign wealth fund bailed out the Kushners from their money pit at 666 5th Avenue for a cool $2B. That’s far more straight line, involves the shady relative actually having the portfolio representing the government and the government changing their stance right before a big financial transaction that helps the family. Oh and in a realpolitik sense, the blockade hurt our interests because it aligned Qatar more closely with Iran.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Taktix® » 09 Oct 2019, 00:44

I read somewhere that people in Ukraine are calling their president "Monica Zelensky"...
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Ellie » 09 Oct 2019, 13:30

Trump's lawyer's letter ...[declares] the impeachment inquiry "unconstitutional," "unprecedented," and "naked political strategy,"
Please don't say "naked" about anything to do with Trump.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by JD » 10 Oct 2019, 14:00

I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Oct 2019, 16:16

I am genuinely surprised at how much public support for impeachment has flipped. I wonder how much of it was the Ukraine business and how much the widely-predicted "commit to it, and the low-info voters will think it's serious" factor.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Mo » 10 Oct 2019, 16:22

The Ukraine business is part of it, but I definitely think some of it is, "Oh people are taking it seriously instead of just yelling about it on TV." The interesting part is the shift in Republican opinion. One quarter of Republicans support impeachment at this point is cray cray.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by JasonL » 10 Oct 2019, 16:36

I love the take where it’s amazing that “guy who still is waiting for military support from orange guy who will almost certainly still be around says ‘uh that guy didn’t blackmail me’”

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by JD » 10 Oct 2019, 16:37

I wonder if some of the Republican support for impeachment, or at least further investigation, is due to Team Trump finally showing signs of weakness. When it looked like Trump was untouchable, there was no sense in being the voice in the wilderness. But once he starts to flag, it's safer to show your true colors and join in tearing him down.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Mo » 10 Oct 2019, 16:47

Shut down the Onion they will never publish anything better than this.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/10/6- ... t-inquiry/
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Painboy » 10 Oct 2019, 17:45

JD wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 16:37
I wonder if some of the Republican support for impeachment, or at least further investigation, is due to Team Trump finally showing signs of weakness. When it looked like Trump was untouchable, there was no sense in being the voice in the wilderness. But once he starts to flag, it's safer to show your true colors and join in tearing him down.
My take is that it's a straight forward charge that has actionable evidence. The Mueller thing in contrast was a lot of vague meetings and insinuations and not a lot of hard evidence. It was difficult for most to follow and it just went on and on with little resolution. And the longer it went on the more it looked like a fishing expedition.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Mo » 10 Oct 2019, 17:47

I think without Mueller, Ukraine doesn’t have the same sting. Mueller was complicated, but it planted the seed. This was just the flower blooming.

Also, Mueller was before he was president, Ukraine was after.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Shem » 15 Oct 2019, 01:13

When John Bolton says "fuck this shit, I'm out," you know we're through the looking glass.
Bolton's directive came after he got into a heated July 10 exchange with Gordon Sondland, the US ambassador to the European Union who was part of Giuliani's shadow foreign policy with respect to Ukraine.

"I am not part of whatever drug deal Rudy and Mulvaney are cooking up," Bolton told Hill to tell White House lawyers, according to Hill's testimony cited by The Times.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by thoreau » 15 Oct 2019, 01:42

"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by thoreau » 17 Oct 2019, 18:29

Just holding the G7 Summit at his resort is so blatantly corrupt that he should be impeached for that alone.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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