And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

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thoreau
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by thoreau » 02 Oct 2019, 15:02

JasonL wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 13:52
That's the red pill, or one version of it. The black pill is Nicolist antilifism.
OK, I get that Nicole calls it that. Wiki indicates that a lot of people use "Black Pill" to refer to a subset of incel ideology.
nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 14:13
Yeah. He keeps talking about how nothing matters but he's still getting upset about it like it does.
Yes. I have to believe that things matter. It's the most maddening part of experience. The lies that people want me to tell (both here and at work) are less painful than believing that things matter while people act like they don't (even while saying that things matter).
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by nicole » 02 Oct 2019, 15:09

It’s not something I made up. It’s the typical way it’s used on twitter.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Hugh Akston » 02 Oct 2019, 15:24

What lies do people here want you to tell thoreau?
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Ellie » 02 Oct 2019, 15:27

nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:09
It’s not something I made up. It’s the typical way it’s used on twitter.
Which color pill have I taken? I'm pretty sure I've taken at least one.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by JasonL » 02 Oct 2019, 15:34

I think I probably took the beige pill.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Oct 2019, 15:38

I took the khaki and blue polo pill. I don't know, something about how I was brainwashed as a child.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by thoreau » 02 Oct 2019, 16:21

Hugh Akston wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:24
What lies do people here want you to tell thoreau?
That Trump's interactions with Russia do not amount to very clearly compromising activity and grounds for removal.

If they just said it's bad but not quite at the threshold, well, OK. But many people tell me that I'm seeing things that aren't there.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Oct 2019, 16:32

thoreau wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 16:21
Hugh Akston wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:24
What lies do people here want you to tell thoreau?
That Trump's interactions with Russia do not amount to very clearly compromising activity and grounds for removal.

If they just said it's bad but not quite at the threshold, well, OK. But many people tell me that I'm seeing things that aren't there.
I don't know if I'm counted among the ranks of those who've been "lying" to you, but I entirely agree that some of Trump's "interactions amount to clearly compromised activity and grounds for removal." There is, of course, a distinction worth drawing between saying that some of them are and do and that any and all of them are and do. There is also the independent question whether, acknowledging that there are sufficient grounds for his removal, it would be in the best interests of the nation at this point [*tick, tick, tick*] to attempt to remove him through impeachment.

I'm not sure, either, why I'm wasting my time with this reply. I must be a glutton for punishment today.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by JasonL » 02 Oct 2019, 16:32

It is bad that his staff took the meeting with the Russians during the campaign. It is not enough. Many other things asserted to be evidence of Russian - we have to pick the right word here because “influence” is not the right one- “collaboration” maybe is not at all strong. He has a trade war - he ran on a trade war. He sick up to strongmen- he sucks up to all strongmen. He has imposed sanctions but not consistently and the ramble has been hot and cold - he’s an inconsistent boob. And so on. Russia is trying to exert influence and his mere stupidity makes him a target but dumb dumb is not the same as under the thumb of a foreign power dumb.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Aresen » 02 Oct 2019, 16:34

thoreau wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 16:21
That Trump's interactions with Russia do not amount to very clearly compromising activity and grounds for removal.

If they just said it's bad but not quite at the threshold, well, OK. But many people tell me that I'm seeing things that aren't there.
I think they are compromising and well beyond the limits of what a POTUS (or a candidate for POTUS) ought to do. I do not know if they cross any particular legal threshold. (Although it has famously been noted that "Grounds for Impeachment is whatever Congress it is.")

I have previously stated my preference that Trump be voted out on November 3, 2020. There are several reasons for this, including the resulting sense of grievance among the MAGAs. The simple fact is that the Senate Majority can and will block a conviction, thus emboldening Trump and allowing the MAGAs to claim 'vindication.'

TBS, I would not be bothered if an infarct removed him earlier. I would probably attend the National Line Dance of Mourning.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Hugh Akston » 02 Oct 2019, 16:48

thoreau wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 16:21
Hugh Akston wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:24
What lies do people here want you to tell thoreau?
That Trump's interactions with Russia do not amount to very clearly compromising activity and grounds for removal.

If they just said it's bad but not quite at the threshold, well, OK. But many people tell me that I'm seeing things that aren't there.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't follow the 13 or so Trump-Russia-Impeachment threads all that closely. But I'd be willing to bet that rather than asking you to "tell lies" regarding Trump/Russia, the people in those threads are asking you to consider alternative interpretations, justify your perspective beyond sarcastic whiny self-flagellation, or provide compelling (ie non-speculative) evidence of compromising/impeachable behavior. It should be noted that a rather thorough and lengthy Federal investigation failed to deliver on that last thing.

I'm not sure how interested you are in persuading other people, but I am sure that ignoring counterarguments, willfully mischaracterizing differing perspectives, and the aforementioned whiny sarcasm are not great ways to go about it.

It should be further noted that no one on grylliade.org — not a single one — is pro-Trump or comfortable with all of the shady and downright vicious shit he pulls. Implications to the contrary only server to further undermine your credibility.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Oct 2019, 16:51

Though we could probably induce AR back for a guest appearance just long enough to ruin that unanimity.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by nicole » 02 Oct 2019, 17:17

Ellie wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:27
nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:09
It’s not something I made up. It’s the typical way it’s used on twitter.
Which color pill have I taken? I'm pretty sure I've taken at least one.
I think the average gryller is pretty typically redpilled, no? I mean, I realize that has some right-ish connotations now but it really does also still just mean “seeing through the Cathedral.”

Which, of course, is a right-ish thing to call it but it is what we have. “Seeing through the establishment.”
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by thoreau » 02 Oct 2019, 17:20

Hugh Akston wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 16:48
It should be further noted that no one on grylliade.org — not a single one — is pro-Trump or comfortable with all of the shady and downright vicious shit he pulls. Implications to the contrary only server to further undermine your credibility.
I think the assertion in your first sentence is debatable, even if it does (per the second sentence) undermine my credibility. But it would probably be better to just not have that debate.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Oct 2019, 17:30

thoreau wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 17:20
Hugh Akston wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 16:48
It should be further noted that no one on grylliade.org — not a single one — is pro-Trump or comfortable with all of the shady and downright vicious shit he pulls. Implications to the contrary only server to further undermine your credibility.
I think the assertion in your first sentence is debatable, even if it does (per the second sentence) undermine my credibility. But it would probably be better to just not have that debate.
Yes, it would be far preferably to repeat endlessly how much better it would be not to have that debate.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by JasonL » 02 Oct 2019, 18:14

nicole wrote:
Ellie wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:27
nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:09
It’s not something I made up. It’s the typical way it’s used on twitter.
Which color pill have I taken? I'm pretty sure I've taken at least one.
I think the average gryller is pretty typically redpilled, no? I mean, I realize that has some right-ish connotations now but it really does also still just mean “seeing through the Cathedral.”

Which, of course, is a right-ish thing to call it but it is what we have. “Seeing through the establishment.”
I have only right ish connotations of redpilled and would not self identify. It’s like what are the salient elements of the cathedral.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by lunchstealer » 02 Oct 2019, 18:47

nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 14:13
Yeah. He keeps talking about how nothing matters but he's still getting upset about it like it does.
TBF the nothing matters bits are critiques of magical or blinkered partisan thinking like 'anyone can excel at physics skills don't matter' and 'there's no quid pro quo so this is totally a non-story' and 'trade wars are good and easy to win'. It's frustration that everyone else acts like nothing matters in a post-truth world.

So I mean the nothing matters is literally an expression of being upset by people acting like shit doesn't matter when he deeply feels that it does in fact fucking matter.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Oct 2019, 18:53

lunchstealer wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 18:47
nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 14:13
Yeah. He keeps talking about how nothing matters but he's still getting upset about it like it does.
TBF the nothing matters bits are critiques of magical or blinkered partisan thinking like 'anyone can excel at physics skills don't matter' and 'there's no quid pro quo so this is totally a non-story' and 'trade wars are good and easy to win'. It's frustration that everyone else acts like nothing matters in a post-truth world.

So I mean the nothing matters is literally an expression of being upset by people acting like shit doesn't matter when he deeply feels that it does in fact fucking matter.
I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say that every single person on the Gryll already understood that with crystal clarity. Which, btw, is why it's annoying as fuck and he knows it's annoying as fuck and that's why he continues to do it.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by nicole » 02 Oct 2019, 18:58

JasonL wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 18:14
nicole wrote:
Ellie wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:27
nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 15:09
It’s not something I made up. It’s the typical way it’s used on twitter.
Which color pill have I taken? I'm pretty sure I've taken at least one.
I think the average gryller is pretty typically redpilled, no? I mean, I realize that has some right-ish connotations now but it really does also still just mean “seeing through the Cathedral.”

Which, of course, is a right-ish thing to call it but it is what we have. “Seeing through the establishment.”
I have only right ish connotations of redpilled and would not self identify. It’s like what are the salient elements of the cathedral.
I mean I’m really just using it in the original sense, right

ETA: redpilled I mean
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 02 Oct 2019, 19:00

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 18:53
lunchstealer wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 18:47
nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 14:13
Yeah. He keeps talking about how nothing matters but he's still getting upset about it like it does.
TBF the nothing matters bits are critiques of magical or blinkered partisan thinking like 'anyone can excel at physics skills don't matter' and 'there's no quid pro quo so this is totally a non-story' and 'trade wars are good and easy to win'. It's frustration that everyone else acts like nothing matters in a post-truth world.

So I mean the nothing matters is literally an expression of being upset by people acting like shit doesn't matter when he deeply feels that it does in fact fucking matter.
I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say that every single person on the Gryll already understood that with crystal clarity. Which, btw, is why it's annoying as fuck and he knows it's annoying as fuck and that's why he continues to do it.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by thoreau » 02 Oct 2019, 19:07

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 18:53
lunchstealer wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 18:47
nicole wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 14:13
Yeah. He keeps talking about how nothing matters but he's still getting upset about it like it does.
TBF the nothing matters bits are critiques of magical or blinkered partisan thinking like 'anyone can excel at physics skills don't matter' and 'there's no quid pro quo so this is totally a non-story' and 'trade wars are good and easy to win'. It's frustration that everyone else acts like nothing matters in a post-truth world.

So I mean the nothing matters is literally an expression of being upset by people acting like shit doesn't matter when he deeply feels that it does in fact fucking matter.
I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say that every single person on the Gryll already understood that with crystal clarity. Which, btw, is why it's annoying as fuck and he knows it's annoying as fuck and that's why he continues to do it.
Well, the post-truth world is something that a lot of people here are into.

I mean, the whole reason for my "but it was all just troll farms" snarking is that no matter how many times we've brought up numerous compromising interactions between Trump and Russia, some people will go back to "So what if the Russians were saying things on Facebook?"

There's a thread where people have been talking about how Al Gore is wrong about global warming.

Meanwhile, I had a lunch where somebody said to me "Look, you know lots about the rules concerning [boring administrative task], of course you should be in that meeting!" So then they start talking about "Wait, I thought the requirements were X!" and somebody else is "No, I am pretty sure the requirements are Y!" and I stand up, go to the computer on the table next to them, pull up the document with the requirements, and they ignore it. And then they tell me I was wrong to say that it was pointless for me to be there, even while proving that it was pointless for me to be there.

So, whatever. AGW is nowhere as near as bad as anyone says. Trade wars are good and easy to win. Everybody should be handed a STEM diploma, even if they can't do math. There was no corruption in Trump's dealings with Russia. Everything's fine here.

It's what people want me to say, so I'll say it. Because the Party's final, most essential command is to ignore the evidence of my eyes and ears.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 02 Oct 2019, 19:10

That's right. Keep digging. You'll get out of that hole soon I'm sure.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Oct 2019, 19:25

Thoreau, we're not responsible for your academic colleagues, most of whom you're probably too smart for and that's probably a situation you've suffered through most of your life. (Gawd knows I have.) But name names, cite specifics, put in some context or actually give it a rest.

I suspect I'm one of those people who said he doesn't care if the Russians posted a lot of false shit on the internet because, frankly, I don't. It doesn't follow that I think no one should care or that there's no nexus between Russian meddling and Trump's victory or that Trump gets a pass for everything.

I really haven't been following the discussions of Gore. Was he right that AGW is real and a threat? Obviously yes to the first and probably to the second, but to me the issue has never been about the science but about the policy and the tradeoffs any such policy would incur. Is that somehow wrong? *shrug* My basic AGW policy has been to follow Bailey and then discount his optimism by a significant factor but also not to take seriously anyone who discusses AGW without discussing the economic consequences of whatever policy they're proposing or who says "oh, but nuclear is still too scary," etc. Am I being irresponsible or wrongheaded for that approach?

I mean really, plenty of people here routinely think I'm full of shit about this, that or the other. I make my case, stand my ground where I continue to think I'm right and, unlike some people that come to mind, sometimes rethink and change my position, but I don't think the people who disagree with me are stupid or willfully ignoring my points or my position and life's too fucking short to keep passive-aggressively sulking and grinding and grinding and grinding that fucking ax. Swing the motherfucker or let it drop.

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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Eric the .5b » 02 Oct 2019, 20:44

thoreau wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 19:07
It's what people want me to say, so I'll say it. Because the Party's final, most essential command is to ignore the evidence of my eyes and ears.
Or, you know, some people here just disagree with you on those things—which I'd be the first to say is not trivial if those things are important to you. However, nobody's trying to intimidate or coerce you into saying what you don't believe, that I see. If people has been and I've missed it, I'd say that's worth a lot more hostility than the passive-aggressive layering-sarcasm-until-someone-gets-genuinely-confused routine. (And that I would owe you an apology and I would back you in that hostility.)

I mean, to be blunt, I don't much go into the issue because—while I'd readily stipulate that Trump has almost certainly done something illegal and corrupt involving the Russian government before and/or after the election—you've only really recently started allowing much daylight between your arguments and Taktix's in terms of unsubstantiated projections of what that corruption might entail. You balk at some of the more outre specific suggestions he makes, but if Trump does it and it might benefit Putin in the minds of one or more people on a tiny libertarian forum, well then that's proof right there.

And that's fatiguing to engage., because Trump is, as best I can tell, a mercurial malignant narcissist with a short attention span and encroaching dementia. If he were doing anything to deliberately pursue a pro-Russia agenda, he'd have to have at least one actual, dedicated minder feeding him big-print single-page briefings on the matter to keep him anything like on-track. And given he says and tweets anything that pops into his head, including what he just watched on Fox News (ETA: and federal crimes!), and that he thinks he's completely unaccountable? I think he would have outright told us about it if he was intentionally trying to do anything to benefit Russia, finishing it off with how that proves he's a smart president.
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Re: And Then There Were Four (The Impeachment Thread)

Post by Warren » 02 Oct 2019, 21:10

Eric the .5b wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 20:44
mercurial malignant narcissist
ooo well played Eric. That rolls of the tongue.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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