Dancing With the Dems

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Sorta. Here's the thing. In the UK and I suspect other countries that still have, you know, reasonably well educated people, TV news people are indeed called "presenters." We have "broadcast journalists" and journalists are supposed to, um, fact check. Yeah, the production staff should have caught it, but if TV talking heads want to be taken seriously as analysts, etc., then we get to hold them to a slightly higher standard than "attractive and capable of reading a teleprompter."

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JasonL
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Yeah zero sympathy. This transparently went from rando Twitter to broadcast journalism instantly because it was a hot take.

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nicole
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by nicole »

JasonL wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 19:17
Yeah zero sympathy. This transparently went from rando Twitter to broadcast journalism instantly because it was a hot take.
Lol the “rando” was also a bluecheck journalist
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Mo
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Mo »

Jadagul wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 17:28
As a mathematician, I have nothing but sympathy for someone making a dumb calculation error during a live presentation. I do that like twice an hour when lecturing. And I have notes.

I have much less sympathy for doubling down, and not noticing when the issue is pointed out. I regularly write something like "2+4=5" on the board, but then one of my students says "uh..." and I fix it.

And of course, as Nicole says, probably like ten people looked at this before it aired. One of them should have caught it. But I don't blame the presenters for not catching it while they were presenting.
My freshman physics final was one of those, three hours two questions tests and I forgot my calculator so I ended up tight on time and showed ALL my work. I finished it and when I got it back I had pretty much nailed it but ended up with a really funky answer that had a sqrt 3 in it which seemed off. I looked at my exam afterward and on the very first page circled in red was “6x6=64” with a snarky comment like, “good job on the calculus, work on the arithmetic“. That being said, show your work because I got an A- with a wrong answer on half the exam.
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Jadagul
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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D.A. Ridgely wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 19:04
Sorta. Here's the thing. In the UK and I suspect other countries that still have, you know, reasonably well educated people, TV news people are indeed called "presenters." We have "broadcast journalists" and journalists are supposed to, um, fact check. Yeah, the production staff should have caught it, but if TV talking heads want to be taken seriously as analysts, etc., then we get to hold them to a slightly higher standard than "attractive and capable of reading a teleprompter."
No, that's fair. But my point is that making a math mistake while reacting live is totally understandable. I could see myself making a mistake very like that, in a different context.

The problems are twofold. First, they never should have been put in the situation of reacting to it live like that. They should have checked, other people should have checked, _someone_ should have noticed. And second, a lot of people are doubling down on the original claim, which is just false.

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Painboy
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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I just wonder at a mentality that could believe rich people, especially a single one, have so much money that they could give every citizen in the country a million dollars. The claim is completely outrageous. It's one thing to get fooled by something that sounds a little too good to be true. But this is completely delusional.

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Jadagul
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Yeah, that's why I said "in a different context". I wouldn't have believed the claim so I'd have double-checked.

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JasonL
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by JasonL »

There’s a certain kind of person who is philosophically hostile to denominators. Big enough numerator, especially when wealth is the subject, negates any power the denominator has - you get to keep telling the same dragons hoarding gold or we’d all be rich story.

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JD
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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It's the Scrooge McDuck view of wealth. Us Hueys, Deweys, and Louies open our wallet and a moth flies out, while Scrooge McDuck is literally swimming in gold coins of which he has so many he would never notice if Huey, Dewey, and Louie took all they could carry.

And I get the emotional reaction, at some level. If you're poor, Mike Bloomberg is unimaginably wealthy compared to you. Remember how Bloomberg's net worth is about $59 billion - I looked up the US median household net worth, and it's about $97,300. So he is over six hundred thousand times as wealthy as the median household, which is a hell of a lot. And if your net worth is way lower, then yeah, he does seem like Scrooge McDuck. But you can't just make decisions based on emotional reactions, and the thing is that while 600,000 is a lot, it's also not very much compared to the population of the US; if you pooled 600,000 US households to equal Bloomberg's wealth, you'd still have...about 325 million people left over to outweigh Bloomberg. People just do not get the magnitude of the numbers.
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JD
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Seen on FB, a post about how the Russians are using reverse psychology on us! They want to appear to like Sanders so we'll be scared into voting for Biden, when that's really what they wanted all along! Cue "not sure if serious or not" face...
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Those youngsters arent going to vote*. I held my tongue just because I wasnt sure if things were going to be more of the same. And of course it was more of the same. I dont know why I didn't trust my cynicism.

*it feels weird saying that without being tongue in cheek
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Jadagul
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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JD wrote:
07 Mar 2020, 10:48
It's the Scrooge McDuck view of wealth. Us Hueys, Deweys, and Louies open our wallet and a moth flies out, while Scrooge McDuck is literally swimming in gold coins of which he has so many he would never notice if Huey, Dewey, and Louie took all they could carry.

And I get the emotional reaction, at some level. If you're poor, Mike Bloomberg is unimaginably wealthy compared to you. Remember how Bloomberg's net worth is about $59 billion - I looked up the US median household net worth, and it's about $97,300. So he is over six hundred thousand times as wealthy as the median household, which is a hell of a lot. And if your net worth is way lower, then yeah, he does seem like Scrooge McDuck. But you can't just make decisions based on emotional reactions, and the thing is that while 600,000 is a lot, it's also not very much compared to the population of the US; if you pooled 600,000 US households to equal Bloomberg's wealth, you'd still have...about 325 million people left over to outweigh Bloomberg. People just do not get the magnitude of the numbers.
Large orders of magnitude are confusing in every direction.

Like, on the one hand, Bloomberg is absurdly rich. It's almost impossible to viscerally grasp how rich he is. Like, Steyer has an almost-graspable amount of money, at about $1 billion. But even that's hard to wrap your head around. Bloomberg has fifty times that.

(I've been complaining to a friend about an author I like who writes lots of short things about women falling in love with, like, billionaire vampires and such. And that's all very sweet, but she doesn't have a good grasp always of how much money billionaires actually have.)

On the other hand, it's also really hard to grasp how big the country is. It's the same problem. 330 million is also a number big enough that we can't wrap our heads around it. (See Asimov's Trantor, which is an entire planet turned into a city and is so densely populated that it has almost 40 billion people. Which would give it a quarter the population density of the city of Topeka, and about the same population density as Lancaster Country, Pennsylvania, where the Amish live.)

And so when people try to compare two numbers that are so large they have no sense of how large they are, you can get almost anything out of it and it will sound plausible.

There are about 36m people in the US on food stamps. If Bloomberg split his money among them, they would each get about $2000. Which would make a big difference to anyone on food stamps, certainly. But it's probably not a totally life-changing amount, and he gets to do that once. Assuming you can even transfer his wealth in a coherent way, which isn't clear.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Eric the .5b »

See also the, "And we're going to do all this by, like, taxing the top six wealthiest people." business.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I'm not sure which is sadder: the original claim or the fact that someone thinks it needs to be fact-checked.

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Warren
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
08 Mar 2020, 00:43
I'm not sure which is sadder: the original claim or the fact that someone thinks it needs to be fact-checked.
Fact checked with a calculator!
If that sounds too good to be true, it’s because it is. A quick use of a calculator shows that $500 million divided by 327 million people is actually about $1.53 per person.
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Jasper
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Painboy wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 22:32
I just wonder at a mentality that could believe rich people, especially a single one, have so much money that they could give every citizen in the country a million dollars. The claim is completely outrageous. It's one thing to get fooled by something that sounds a little too good to be true. But this is completely delusional.
Look - everyone knows that Bloomberg could give all Americans a million bucks and not notice it, just like everyone knows when Charles Koch votes, it counts 100 million times.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Jasper wrote:
09 Mar 2020, 13:20
Painboy wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 22:32
I just wonder at a mentality that could believe rich people, especially a single one, have so much money that they could give every citizen in the country a million dollars. The claim is completely outrageous. It's one thing to get fooled by something that sounds a little too good to be true. But this is completely delusional.
Look - everyone knows that Bloomberg could give all Americans a million bucks and not notice it, just like everyone knows when Charles Koch votes, it counts 100 million times.
Not to mention how we all know that money buys elections, which is why Bloomberg will be our next president.

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JD
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Here's an "insightful" NY Times piece about a young man who's never been political before, but he's voting for Bernie because...well, because he has debt and he thinks the world is screwed up and he thinks Bernie gets him and people like him. And I do feel bad for him, but...
If he thought Mr. Sanders had been treated unfairly by the Democratic Party establishment, “it’s possible I might just vote for Trump,” he said.

He sounded a bit sheepish.

“That might be immature, that might be bad,” he said. “But I guess I still don’t view Trump as Hitler either.”

Even if Mr. Biden won against Mr. Trump, he said, millions of Americans will still be in poverty, schools will still be underfunded, “all the stuff they are blaming on Trump will still be there.”
All I can think of is, "You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

FiveThirtyEight now gives Biden a 99% chance of getting the nomination.

When the music's over, turn out the light.

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JD
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Oh, Joe, I don't think that's the way to get votes. But who knows? Maybe people will be impressed by his forthrightness.

Joe Biden tells factory worker ‘you’re full of s---’ during a tense argument over guns
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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If I thought Joe Biden knew where he was at any given time, I would swear he was trying to throw the election.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 13:24
If I thought Joe Biden knew where he was at any given time, I would swear he was trying to throw the election.
From now on I'm calling him President Pudding Spoon.

You can have the royalties.
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Mo
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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His handlers are going to keep him off of rope lines due to "coronavirus concerns"
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren »

Mo wrote:
10 Mar 2020, 13:47
His handlers are going to keep him off of rope lines due to "coronavirus concerns"
That's fine for the time being. But after the conventions, Trump is going to start calling him out. If they let him on the same stage as Trump it'll be a blood bath.
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nicole
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Haha yes

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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