The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Eric the .5b »

Well, let's consider all the brilliant people he's gotten for every other White House position
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Mo
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Mo »

Warren wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 23:54
thoreau wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 22:47
Again, even if we grant the most charitable interpretation of the airport remark, there's still the references to the War of 1812 in the midst of a Revolutionary War discussion. His speechwriters are fucking stupid.

But, for Warren's sake, we'll just assume that the Don himself is acting on a cunning plan.

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I can believe The Donald is that stupid, but his speechwriters? I dunno. I wouldn't think so, but the people around him are chosen for their brownnosing enthusiasm. So maybe? Do we even know who his speechwriters are?
Stephen Miller is the head of speechwriting, so yes, they are stupid.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

Remember when Trump said he was going to hire "the best people?" And his fans believed him? *snicker*
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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

Even after the vile racism of Trump's latest rally turning into an anti-Omar rally, complete with chants of "send her back!," Republicans can't bring themselves to condemn Trump's comments without whatabouting Democrats.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... -back.html
There’s a pattern here: Admit that it’s not great that a frenzied crowd of white people is demanding that a black U.S. citizen and democratically elected congresswoman be “sent back” to Africa, but then make sure to say that she and her three high-profile colleagues have also “disgusted” you because they don’t “appreciate” or “respect” the United States, an accusation for which you don’t/can’t cite any particular things they’ve actually done because the allegations of anti-Americanism leveled against Omar are strained out-of-context smears and the ones against Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib aren’t based on anything at all except the fact that they’re liberal women who aren’t white. Such a lack of patriotism on their part, being born like that!
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Aresen
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Aresen »

Jennifer wrote:
18 Jul 2019, 16:24
Even after the vile racism of Trump's latest rally turning into an anti-Omar rally, complete with chants of "send her back!," Republicans can't bring themselves to condemn Trump's comments without whatabouting Democrats.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... -back.html
There’s a pattern here: Admit that it’s not great that a frenzied crowd of white people is demanding that a black U.S. citizen and democratically elected congresswoman be “sent back” to Africa, but then make sure to say that she and her three high-profile colleagues have also “disgusted” you because they don’t “appreciate” or “respect” the United States, an accusation for which you don’t/can’t cite any particular things they’ve actually done because the allegations of anti-Americanism leveled against Omar are strained out-of-context smears and the ones against Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib aren’t based on anything at all except the fact that they’re liberal women who aren’t white. Such a lack of patriotism on their part, being born like that!
While I always thought there remained a core group of bigots in the USA, I deluded myself that no national politician would dare openly pander to them.
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thoreau
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by thoreau »

Nonsense, Aresen. Both parties are exactly identical in all ways.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

From the Toronto Star:

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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

Two Republican candidates in Mississippi have promised never ever to be alone with a woman other than their wife. Haven't seen the GOP leadership condemning this, nor have I seen equivalent WTFery coming from Democrats. Where "women's issues" (and "issues with women") are concerned, I'm fairly comfortable in saying "Today's Republicans are noticeably worse than today's Democrats; the two parties here are not the same, nor even two sides of the same coin."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Dangerman
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Dangerman »

And with that, the thread was lost.

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Dangerman wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 17:40
And with that, the thread was lost.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

If anyone has any actual arguments why Democrats are actually worse than Republicans these days (or even strictly equal), I would be interested in hearing them! Any takers?

There are countless examples of Republicans being shits about women, but I don't know of any corresponding examples of Democrats trying to turn the tables on men -- have any female Democratic lawmakers said they won't talk to men without a chaperone present? Democrats arguing that (for example) health insurance should not cover problems with male-specific body parts, since this is unfair to women, who never suffer from prostate trouble yet are forced to pay premiums to insurance companies that cover it? Anything along those lines?
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thoreau
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by thoreau »

The Democrats aren't worse than the Republicans. They are just the same as the Republicans because all things are the same and any insinuation of difference is hyperbole.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
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Dangerman
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Dangerman »

No, harder.

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Dangerman wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 20:05
No, harder.
Daddy?
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I'm fine with saying Democrats, on average and especially out of power, are the lesser of the Two Evil Parties. As always, it nonetheless bears pointing out that they both want our money and they both want to tell us what we can and cannot do with our lives and, as always, it's just a matter of who wants more of what on what particular issue. Take all the snapshots you want, but the only way to view the actual, let alone relative evil of the two parties is over time.

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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 20:32
I'm fine with saying Democrats, on average and especially out of power, are the lesser of the Two Evil Parties. As always, it nonetheless bears pointing out that they both want our money and they both want to tell us what we can and cannot do with our lives and, as always, it's just a matter of who wants more of what on what particular issue. Take all the snapshots you want, but the only way to view the actual, let alone relative evil of the two parties is over time.
Sure, but at this point, looking just over the timeline of my own personal likely expected lifetime, I don't see the Democrats devolving into something as vile as contemporary Republicans. Lee Atwater gave his infamous dogwhistle/Southern Strategy interview in 1981, when the strategy was already roughly a generation old, and while Republicans throughout my adult lifetime have always engaged in some nasty dogwhistle stuff, not until the 2016 campaign did it erupt into full-blown white ethnocentric Trumpism.

I personally have serious complaints about every likely Democratic candidate right now, but I'll vote for any of them over Trump. Even that vile Kamala Harris.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

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Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

From my old stomping grounds in Connecticut (where, at least in my day -- pre-2012 -- "moderate Republicans" not ONLY existed, but were the majority of Republicans in office): a town selectman in Colchester lost the GOP caucus endorsement after criticizing Trump's racist tweets.

https://www.norwichbulletin.com/news/20 ... _6P4StemgY
On Monday and Tuesday, Stan Soby’s Twitter account included retweets of posts that were critical of President Donald Trump’s racist comments about four congresswomen of color.

On Tuesday, Soby, a 13-year member of Colchester’s Board of Selectmen, was not endorsed by his Republican caucus. And his tweets critical of the president and in favor of some Democrats appear to be a big reason why.
I look forward to reading many insightful and well-reasoned arguments as to why "the party where even criticizing racism has become the political kiss of death" is no worse than the alternative. Or, in lieu of reason and insight, a slew of sulky comments a la "No, YOU suck. Nyaaah."
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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

In light of the current status quo -- including a Republican president openly boasting that he told the head of the coronavirus task force to ignore calls from certain governors whom said president does not like, and the rest of the GOP doing and saying fuck-all in condemnation of an American president dealing with a nationwide crisis by refusing to give federal aid to those who don't support him politically (then, a day or two later, turning around and suggesting maybe the nationwide shortage of medical masks is because healthcare workers have been stealing them to sell for a profit) -- is it currently acceptable to say "Democrats are the lesser of two evils" or "Bad as the Dems are, the GOP is worse" or similar things here, without spawning an argument? Or are there still some of you who insist "Hillary would've been worse" or "the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if they were the ones currently in power" and such?
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I think in rough terms there is truth to the notion that the political pendulum swings back in the opposite direction with nearly equal force, thus I think what passes for the Republicans under Trump is not only going to be an unmitigated disaster while he and they are in power, they're also going to unleash a vastly more aggressive and successful progressive agenda once the Democrats do gain sufficient control. Say what one will about Hillary, and there's plenty to say, but she would have been a moderately liberal status quo president compared with what has already come and what is coming next.

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Jennifer
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by Jennifer »

To paraphrase what PJ O'Rourke said back in the day, explaining why he'd vote for Hillary rather than Trump: Hillary would be wrong about almost everything, but at least she'd be wrong within normal parameters. Democrats in general are wrong within normal parameters, whereas Republicans increasingly are not (or at least, their normal parameters are more psychotic than the Dems'). Even Trump's boasting refusal to give covid-19 aid to states whose governors he dislikes, there were precedents: remember the various GOP senators or congressmen who voted against Hurricane Sandy aid to Blue states?
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thoreau
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

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D.A. Ridgely wrote:
30 Mar 2020, 13:53
I think in rough terms there is truth to the notion that the political pendulum swings back in the opposite direction with nearly equal force, thus I think what passes for the Republicans under Trump is not only going to be an unmitigated disaster while he and they are in power, they're also going to unleash a vastly more aggressive and successful progressive agenda once the Democrats do gain sufficient control. Say what one will about Hillary, and there's plenty to say, but she would have been a moderately liberal status quo president compared with what has already come and what is coming next.
Is there any reason to believe that Biden's handlers and VP will be all that progressive?
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

thoreau wrote:
30 Mar 2020, 13:58
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
30 Mar 2020, 13:53
I think in rough terms there is truth to the notion that the political pendulum swings back in the opposite direction with nearly equal force, thus I think what passes for the Republicans under Trump is not only going to be an unmitigated disaster while he and they are in power, they're also going to unleash a vastly more aggressive and successful progressive agenda once the Democrats do gain sufficient control. Say what one will about Hillary, and there's plenty to say, but she would have been a moderately liberal status quo president compared with what has already come and what is coming next.
Is there any reason to believe that Biden's handlers and VP will be all that progressive?
There's reason to believe that Biden won't be a strong enough president if the Dems gain control of both houses of Congress to rein in the progressives who, whether stopped for the moment or not, are the likely future of the party. Plus, they will seize the day to cram through whatever 'moderate' social programs they can while still in power because that's how the game is played now.

The history of the welfare state always ratchets up toward more benefits, especially for the middle classes. The ACA is a perfect example. First decried as socialistic and government overreach (both of which are to some extent true), but once in place the average voter sees the visible benefits but is largely oblivious to the unseen downside and suddenly the program is wildly popular.

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nicole
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Re: The Right Way to View Competing Political Horrors

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Jennifer wrote:
30 Mar 2020, 13:39
In light of the current status quo -- including a Republican president openly boasting that he told the head of the coronavirus task force to ignore calls from certain governors whom said president does not like, and the rest of the GOP doing and saying fuck-all in condemnation of an American president dealing with a nationwide crisis by refusing to give federal aid to those who don't support him politically (then, a day or two later, turning around and suggesting maybe the nationwide shortage of medical masks is because healthcare workers have been stealing them to sell for a profit) -- is it currently acceptable to say "Democrats are the lesser of two evils" or "Bad as the Dems are, the GOP is worse" or similar things here, without spawning an argument? Or are there still some of you who insist "Hillary would've been worse" or "the Democrats would do exactly the same thing if they were the ones currently in power" and such?
I mean, in the places where Democrats are in power they have completely fucked the response, so...?
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