Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Aug 2019, 19:19

Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 19:09
So I'm unblocked and we're talking again?
Right this moment, we're talking. Beyond that...why do you keep acting like the following is mysterious to you?

Image

That second line does something when you click it.

Sometimes I get curious and look. I just dealt with someone going on about how they're so brave as to make a post in favor of gun control on a thoroughly pro-gun control forum, (ETA: Oh, and then a PETA supporter) so I'm probably just in the mood for a slightly different variety of stupid shit.
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Jennifer
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Jennifer » 23 Aug 2019, 19:40

I've seen some really disturbing claims about Ngo lately, though I didn't mention them here due to a combination of lack of time, and "it's mostly tweets made or shared by lefty-types who talk about late-stage capitalism," but -- apparently there was something where Ngo posted video apparently showing Antifa attacking innocent Proud Boys with a hammer. Come to find out it was very selectively edited; what happened was, a Proud Boy wielding a hammer went against the anti-Proud Boy protesters, the protester wrenched the hammer away ... and that's when Ngo's promoted video snippet started.
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Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 23 Aug 2019, 19:43

I kinda don’t remember who he is, but he seems - divisive.

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Dangerman
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Dangerman » 23 Aug 2019, 19:53

Eric the .5b wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 19:19
Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 19:09
So I'm unblocked and we're talking again?
Right this moment, we're talking. Beyond that...why do you keep acting like the following is mysterious to you?

.....image.....

That second line does something when you click it.

Sometimes I get curious and look. I just dealt with someone going on about how they're so brave as to make a post in favor of gun control on a thoroughly pro-gun control forum, (ETA: Oh, and then a PETA supporter) so I'm probably just in the mood for a slightly different variety of stupid shit.
Well, I've never ignored anyone on this forum, so I've never seen that. Dunno what to tell you, I'm a pleb and not a tier 1 Internet Operator. That's probably not a surprise to anyone.

I have refrained mentioning you, actively engaging with posts you make, or responding to you directly because I thought that was what we had agreed to, for my part because you have made it very clear that you blocked me, and that you detest me, that I pestered you with unwanted communications, and that you have no interest in what I say.

I would like you to

A) continue to not interact with me, (and I'll continue to do the same)
or
B) agree that we will engage as members here in some kind of good faith.

But not

C) loudly say you want nothing to do with me, that I'm blocked etc. then drop in and snipe with insults.

I know that I posted something that was rude in response to Mo.

It strikes me that you picked the post where I apologized to him and admitted that he had a point, and that I needed to reconsider, to make your comment. If we had any relationship on this board besides a kind of de facto enmity, I could think that you were busting my balls, but this clearly isn't that. I'm trying really hard to be level about this man, especially because I feel bad about what I just said upthread, unthinking, uncritical, rude. But when you act like this it really doesn't help anyone, and makes it extremely hard to do anything but flame each other.

100%, I really don't like some of the things I've fought over in the past, and I'm disgusted now by the feelings of righteous anger over shit, and I'm trying to hold myself to higher standards. But you and I are locked into this thing we can't get past and I hate it. I'd rather we find some way to get along, but I'll take mutual silence if that's the only way to not have this tension and bad blood.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Warren » 23 Aug 2019, 20:07

:oops:
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Aug 2019, 20:33

Jennifer wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 19:40
I've seen some really disturbing claims about Ngo lately, though I didn't mention them here due to a combination of lack of time, and "it's mostly tweets made or shared by lefty-types who talk about late-stage capitalism," but -- apparently there was something where Ngo posted video apparently showing Antifa attacking innocent Proud Boys with a hammer. Come to find out it was very selectively edited; what happened was, a Proud Boy wielding a hammer went against the anti-Proud Boy protesters, the protester wrenched the hammer away ... and that's when Ngo's promoted video snippet started.
Yup, that's one of the things in the unrolled Twitter thread I linked.

Another, rather hilarious, one is where he goes on about some guy horribly beaten by antifa, while ignoring that the guy is being tended to by antifa and conspicuously has taped-up knuckles that suggest he came there to fight. Other video offered shows the guy actually getting beaten up—by people around him after he tries to attack one of the protestors. I can't feel a drop of pity for the guy; he got what he came for.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Aug 2019, 20:56

Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 19:53
I have refrained mentioning you, actively engaging with posts you make, or responding to you directly because I thought that was what we had agreed to
No, you haven't. You conspicuously haven't done that. You've popped up in threads where I've said nothing to you to make various demands about what I say, or that I talk to you, or whatever. Probably many more times that I've missed. You're straight-up lying about that and trying to make yourself look pitiable at the same time. I don't really care what you say to that or who falls for it, it's still a lie.

And even before I blocked you, you made "agreements" about how you'd act and you broke them. So, you can make your demands about what you want from me or anyone else, but I won't give a shit. I'm not even going to respond further to your whining about that.
Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 19:53
I know that I posted something that was rude in response to Mo.
Whatever. Nobody else here cares about how you treat people, so why should I?

I responded very specifically to your, Welll, OK, maybe Ngo isn't a platonically objective reporter...but anyone criticizing him, especially anyone showing videos with more context than his deceptive cherry-picking, is just as biased! So discount them and their dastardly support of the much less violent side! little backflip.

I'd hardly say my opinion of you is unaffected by our interactions in the last few years or the hills you've chosen to die on, but I'm not responding to something you said, "in the past". You posted this today.

But, you know what, I'll do you a solid. I won't start calling you "Doublethink" until the next time or three you pull this (and I notice).
Last edited by Eric the .5b on 23 Aug 2019, 21:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Dangerman
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Dangerman » 23 Aug 2019, 21:02

Image

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Aug 2019, 21:12

Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 21:02
[Meme]
That is what you were complaining about, so it works for me. :)

But, yeah. I did kinda paint you in a corner by blowing off all your ways of dodging the substance of the disagreement. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure where you could go besides trying to double down on the inane equation of antifa protesters with violent gangs of white supremacists who whip out batons and hammers and hatchets at "demonstrations", so fair enough.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by lunchstealer » 23 Aug 2019, 21:25

Almost two months this time!
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Dangerman
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Dangerman » 23 Aug 2019, 21:41

Eric the .5b wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 21:12
Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 21:02
[Meme]
That is what you were complaining about, so it works for me. :)

But, yeah. I did kinda paint you in a corner by blowing off all your ways of dodging the substance of the disagreement. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure where you could go besides trying to double down on the inane equation of antifa protesters with violent gangs of white supremacists who whip out batons and hammers and hatchets at "demonstrations", so fair enough.
I will say more strongly that I doubt Ngo is honest in his portrayal of the various protest he was a part of, that it seems like he was a partisan, and that if the Cider Riot incident was a case of right wingers going to a bar and attacking people, that I condemn that.

I will also say that anyone who goes out in a gang with intentions of violence is an asshole, and the police should deal with all of them severely.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Aug 2019, 22:07

lunchstealer wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 21:25
Almost two months this time!
I'd like to dream that this forum can start going longer between people saying contemptible things in response to criticism of the right. You'd think that the fact we're talking white supremacists and their mouthpieces would change anything, but I guess not. :/
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Aug 2019, 22:10

Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 21:41
Eric the .5b wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 21:12
Dangerman wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 21:02
[Meme]
That is what you were complaining about, so it works for me. :)

But, yeah. I did kinda paint you in a corner by blowing off all your ways of dodging the substance of the disagreement. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure where you could go besides trying to double down on the inane equation of antifa protesters with violent gangs of white supremacists who whip out batons and hammers and hatchets at "demonstrations", so fair enough.
I will say more strongly that I doubt Ngo is honest in his portrayal of the various protest he was a part of, that it seems like he was a partisan, and that if the Cider Riot incident was a case of right wingers going to a bar and attacking people, that I condemn that.

I will also say that anyone who goes out in a gang with intentions of violence is an asshole, and the police should deal with all of them severely.
That's actually reasonable. I do appreciate your saying that.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by lunchstealer » 27 Aug 2019, 00:02

So Ngo seems to be getting booted from Quillette.



ouch.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Jennifer » 27 Aug 2019, 04:03

He left totally by choice, Lunch. To go write for a more lucrative outlet. You don't know it though; it's in Canada.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/andy-ngo- ... ia=desktop
The conservative op-ed website Quillette announced Monday night that controversial right-wing writer Andy Ngo is leaving his job as an editor at the site, an announcement that comes on the same day that a Portland newspaper published a story revealing that Ngo witnessed a far-right group planning violence but never reported it.

Ngo, a photographer who was until recently a sub-editor at Quillette, became a celebrity on Fox News and other pro-Trump media outlets after he was attacked by left-wing demonstrators at a Portland political rally in June. Ngo then became prominent as an opponent of political violence, with most of his criticism aimed at the left.

But footage taken by an undercover liberal activist in May and described on Monday by the Portland Mercury showed Ngo witnessing activists from the far-right group Patriot Prayer planning a violent confrontation at a bar associated with left-wing activists. Ngo never reported on what he had seen the Patriot Prayer members planning, and some of the people involved in the attack at the bar now face felony riot charges.

This clip, shot right before Patriot Prayer arrived at Cider Riot on May Day, is the clearest evidence I've seen supporting the claim that PP & leader Joey Gibson were intent on instigating a fight that afternoon. https://t.co/G1iM9XUDi2
— Alex Zielinski (@alex_zee) August 22, 2019

Hours after the Portland Mercury story ran on Monday, Ngo removed his Quillette job from his Twitter profile. Shortly after that, Ngo’s name disappeared from the masthead at Quillette, a self-described “platform for free thought” that has become a hub for the right-wing Intellectual Dark Web movement.

Ngo didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Quillette editor-in-chief Claire Lehmann insisted in emails to The Daily Beast that Ngo’s exit had nothing to do with the Portland Mercury story or the undercover footage that began to circulate on Twitter last week, saying instead that Ngo left the site weeks earlier but that the move was only made public on Monday.

“Andy actually moved on from Quillette a few weeks ago because he is undertaking bigger & better projects, we just hadn't updated the website and he hadn't updated his Twitter bio until today,” Lehmann wrote....
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Mo » 27 Aug 2019, 04:14

Seems like claiming it wasn’t for the bad thing that he did makes Quillette look worse. Shouldn’t they want to say, “Hey, he behaved badly and we have standards”?
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Jennifer » 27 Aug 2019, 05:54

Mo wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 04:14
Seems like claiming it wasn’t for the bad thing that he did makes Quillette look worse. Shouldn’t they want to say, “Hey, he behaved badly and we have standards”?
I'm guessing in their mind, it's even better somehow if they can convince people "Yeah, his leaving us was a done deal before any of this came out anyway" in hope of avoiding questions regarding what this might suggest re: the overall integrity and quality of everything Ngo did for them.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 12 Sep 2019, 02:08

Near the end of this video John McWhorter mentions the IDW:

"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 12 Sep 2019, 10:30

"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 12 Sep 2019, 15:56

The phenology, conversion therapy defending, and outright fraud were one thing, but working for the TSA is just disreputable.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Warren » 12 Sep 2019, 16:04

Remind me. What was the fraud about?
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 12 Sep 2019, 16:10

The fraud was an article by a guy who claimed to have been involved in DSA. It has a number of "This story is obviously too good to be true" markers in it. They pulled it when they finally recognized its hoax nature.

I don't recall a Quillette article drawing inferences about human intelligence from skull measurements, but I don't read everything.

I also don't recall an article defending conversion therapies, but I do recall articles that I interpreted as supporting cautious approaches to transitions in children. However, it may be that some of those articles had dog whistles for supporters of conversion therapies.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Jennifer » 12 Sep 2019, 18:25

thoreau wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 16:10
I don't recall a Quillette article drawing inferences about human intelligence from skull measurements, but I don't read everything.
Couple highlights on this twitter thread (result from a quick search for Quillette and phrenology).

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1153 ... 84225.html
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 12 Sep 2019, 18:41

thoreau wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 16:10
The fraud was an article by a guy who claimed to have been involved in DSA.
Quillette also had Andy Ngo before they quietly disappeared him from their contributor listings.

"Craniology" has been a recurring attempt to rebrand phrenology. It's pretty much the go-to thing mentioned about them online.

We talked about Debra Soh's defense of conversion therapy for transgender kids (even to the point of arguing against laws banning it for gay and transgender children) way back at the beginning of this thread, and she's written for the site.

I don't really care if they bother to explicitly advance these things in posts on the site. These are the people involved with this outlet, and the more I bother to dig, the worse they look. If Walker, Balko, Sanchez, and company had been "race realists" back in the days they all worked for Reason, people would rightfully talk about that magazine full of racists.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 12 Sep 2019, 18:57

I read Soh charitably because of her own experience as a gender-non-conforming youth who desisted.

Ngo is a more serious matter, as is the hoax. Anyone can get hoaxed, but this was a "too good to be true" story that they accepted uncritically, and that's exactly the opposite of what I'd want from them. And Ngo I have serious issues with.

Is there any phrenology in Quillette beyond a comment on Boris Johnson's appearance?

And, FYI, the comment about them being dead to me after the TSA article was a joke. I do have concerns about them of late, but the TSA article is not actually what would drive me away.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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