Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

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thoreau
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Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 10 May 2019, 17:45

Let's just stipulate that Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Eric Weinstein, and Joe Rogan are crap. I maintain that there are still plenty of interesting and thoughtful people in the wider "Intellectual Dark Web." My nominees:

John McWhorter
Glenn Loury
Meghan Daum
Coleman Hughes
Lauren Oyler (she might not see herself that way, but her essay on "Necessary Art" is very IDW, IMHO)
Phoebe Maltz Bovy
Kat Rosenfeld
Lee Jussim
Jesse Singal
Katie Herzog
Thomas Chatterton Williams
Debra Soh

Not all of these people would be considered IDW, but most of them are IDW-adjacent, in that they either mention or get mentioned by IDW types.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 10 May 2019, 18:34

Joe Rogan's a comic, albeit one who found (not unlike Bill Maher and Dennis Miller before him) that the continuum from stand-up comic to talk show host to political commentator can be pretty seamless. I think even he would be hard pressed to consider himself a public intellectual.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 May 2019, 21:55

If you take out all those names at the start...what is the IDW even about or defined by?
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Number 6 » 11 May 2019, 12:58

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
10 May 2019, 18:34
Joe Rogan's a comic, albeit one who found (not unlike Bill Maher and Dennis Miller before him) that the continuum from stand-up comic to talk show host to political commentator can be pretty seamless. I think even he would be hard pressed to consider himself a public intellectual.
I know Rogan as an interviewer, and he's actually quite good at that. I'm kind of confused by his inclusion in the IDW.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 11 May 2019, 14:06

If you allow people to say things on your platform you are identical to them.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Dangerman » 11 May 2019, 22:22

I like Joe Rogan's podcast, and I enjoy the choice of guests, but choices are being made, and he's had the IDW headliners on his show and it's clear he agrees with a lot of what Peterson and Weinstein have to say. I do too, but I can see exactly why he's linked to them and I don't think it's a slur or a coup against anyone?

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by dhex » 11 May 2019, 23:17

Rogan does some great long-form conversations. But he's on the line of gullible a lot and l won't give Alex chili Jones a view bc fuck that guy.

But Joey Diaz all day long.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Warren » 12 May 2019, 07:46

Bret Weinstein is an involuntary member of the IDW. A liberal professor at a small NE college, but he refused to obey the edicts of the SJWs and was expelled from Left Society.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by nicole » 12 May 2019, 08:54

Warren wrote:
12 May 2019, 07:46
Bret Weinstein is an involuntary member of the IDW. A liberal professor at a small NE college, but he refused to obey the edicts of the SJWs and was expelled from Left Society.
It’s not involuntary when you’re one of the primary brand-builders
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 12 May 2019, 11:19

Warren wrote:Bret Weinstein is an involuntary member of the IDW. A liberal professor at a small NE college, but he refused to obey the edicts of the SJWs and was expelled from Left Society.
"Small NE college"? Warren, please Google Evergreen State and get back to us.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 12 May 2019, 11:39

Is the claim that Bret is awful or is the claim that Eric is awful? Bret is the Evergreen guy and Eric is the brother? Are they both awful?

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 12 May 2019, 12:18

I have no problem with Bret.

Eric got pilloried for saying that math isn't a social construct and I have no interest in defending him. I'd rather just set him aside and observe that there are plenty of other IDW and IDW-adjacent people worth paying attention to.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Mo » 12 May 2019, 12:23

Eric is the Thiel capital guy
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by lunchstealer » 12 May 2019, 12:47

thoreau wrote:
12 May 2019, 11:19
Warren wrote:Bret Weinstein is an involuntary member of the IDW. A liberal professor at a small NE college, but he refused to obey the edicts of the SJWs and was expelled from Left Society.
"Small NE college"? Warren, please Google Evergreen State and get back to us.

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Are you saying that Evergreen State isn't a small 'Named Evergreen' college?
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 May 2019, 13:07

lunchstealer wrote:
12 May 2019, 12:47
thoreau wrote:
12 May 2019, 11:19
Warren wrote:Bret Weinstein is an involuntary member of the IDW. A liberal professor at a small NE college, but he refused to obey the edicts of the SJWs and was expelled from Left Society.
"Small NE college"? Warren, please Google Evergreen State and get back to us.

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Are you saying that Evergreen State isn't a small 'Named Evergreen' college?
Or "Non-Engineering" college?

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Ellie » 12 May 2019, 13:29

Or nicely endowed?
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Shem » 12 May 2019, 15:52

Ellie wrote:
12 May 2019, 13:29
Or nicely endowed?
Eh, in my experience the endowments of the student body are decidedly average.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Mo » 12 May 2019, 18:24

Nearly erect?
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Mo » 24 May 2019, 18:51

Ben Shapiro actually said that science and the scientific method is unique to the Western world. I mean I know the dude hates Arabs, but goddamn that’s stupid. If that guy is a conservative thought leader, Trump makes waaaaay more sense.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by dhex » 24 May 2019, 19:18

He's either an idiot or hopefully* getting well paid to act like one in public.

*not really but at least it'd be coherent.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 24 May 2019, 19:27

A buddy of mine knew Shapiro back in middle school. He's always been this guy.

I think this recent Cathy Young article is a better take on the IDW than anything Shapiro has to say:

https://quillette.com/2019/05/24/how-th ... list-pull/

She's improved since her "On the one hand...on the other hand..." days.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 24 May 2019, 20:08

Mo wrote:Ben Shapiro actually said that science and the scientific method is unique to the Western world. I mean I know the dude hates Arabs, but goddamn that’s stupid. If that guy is a conservative thought leader, Trump makes waaaaay more sense.
This is a core conceit in Enlightenment Under Siege type content.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 24 May 2019, 21:19

thoreau wrote:
24 May 2019, 19:27
A buddy of mine knew Shapiro back in middle school. He's always been this guy.

I think this recent Cathy Young article is a better take on the IDW than anything Shapiro has to say
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the IDW, minus the luminaries excluded in the first post, being anything meaningful beyond "writers who've said anything that offended some leftists". When I started going down your list of "interesting and thoughtful" people, it seemed to include anyone from one of the popularizers of the idea that "thug" is a racist slur to a defender of using conversion therapy on underage transgender people.

Is there anything here more coherent than writers saying to themselves, "I won't raise a stink about being associated with Peterson and Shapiro because buzz is buzz."?
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 25 May 2019, 10:33

First, if I had to present a one line summary of the IDW, my first stab at it would probably be "people who are basically liberal--or at least more liberal than conservative--but dissent from some tenets of liberal orthodoxy and enjoy offering contrarian takes."

Second, who on that list supports conversion therapy? I was not aware of that but would reevaluate that person's work if I saw the evidence.

Third, I am not positive about the "thug" part but I am guessing you're talking about John McWhorter? He seems like the most likely one given his interests in race and language. I will have to see what the context was.



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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 25 May 2019, 10:35

Here is an interesting Areo article on the grain of truth behind critiques of open debate.

https://areomagazine.com/2019/05/21/the ... ct-debate/

I don't read her as saying that debate should be limited, but rather that people who want debate to be accepted need to think about how they are presenting it.

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