Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

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JasonL
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by JasonL » 08 Mar 2019, 10:20

No - stupid ideas are winning. That’s for certain. But that doesn’t make them smart ideas. They are stupid and destructive and the people advocating them are very committed to hitting themselves in the face with hammers.

ETA: I think it's part of the same story so I'll go ahead and suggest it - what to do about the fact that everyone acts like crime is at an all time high when it's at an all time low? What to do about the mommies isolating their kids from increasingly improbable risks because they are just wrong about how bad things are? What to do about rise of conspiracy and anti vaxxer movements? These are all "winning the war of ideas" and are flat wrong in their premises. What's our set of concessions to limit the crazies? Empanel a Vaccine Truther Committee to acknowledge the real grievances the real suffering parents have?

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Aresen
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by Aresen » 08 Mar 2019, 10:40

JasonL wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 10:20
No - stupid ideas are winning. That’s for certain. But that doesn’t make them smart ideas. They are stupid and destructive and the people advocating them are very committed to hitting themselves in the face with hammers.

ETA: I think it's part of the same story so I'll go ahead and suggest it - what to do about the fact that everyone acts like crime is at an all time high when it's at an all time low? What to do about the mommies isolating their kids from increasingly improbable risks because they are just wrong about how bad things are? What to do about rise of conspiracy and anti vaxxer movements? These are all "winning the war of ideas" and are flat wrong in their premises. What's our set of concessions to limit the crazies? Empanel a Vaccine Truther Committee to acknowledge the real grievances the real suffering parents have?
Hysteria sells. I had a recent argument with a friend over helicopter parenting. I objected to the idea of parents driving their children to school every day and they came back with the old 'stranger danger' nonsense. They insisted that the danger was worse than when they were kids. When I pointed out the numbers were trending down, they said that was proof that the helicopter parenting was working.
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Dangerman
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by Dangerman » 08 Mar 2019, 12:09

Shem wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 10:15
That's a fine perspective to take if you're convinced you're winning the war of ideas among the general population. Does that feel like a good descriptor of the position you're in?

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Kolohe
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by Kolohe » 08 Mar 2019, 14:39

Shem I agree with you on the New Deal. But the conditions for 'revolution' are much riper when there's 25% unemployment (& only about 30% of working age women were in paid employment) than the current unemployment rate of 4% (and a bunch of old people pushing down the participation rate)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Mar 2019, 22:41

I'm just lost at "revolution" as a thing worth fretting about. Bad ideas can win, and bad ideas are always winning to some extent. But revolution isn't one of them, right now.

I mean, Christ, the people most talking up "late capitalism" and typing one-handed about "revolution" are the same people who'd post "I'm fer punchin' Nazis!" memes back in 2016, but who'd shiver and talk about feeling "unsafe" if they actually saw a Nazi.
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thoreau
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by thoreau » 08 Mar 2019, 22:50

Yeah, revolution is not a concern of mine either. The SJWs feel too unsafe to start one, and the public is too well-fed to actually support one. (This is a good thing.)

The real question here is whether sane people with market-oriented insights are better off trying to moderate the left or the right. Semi-competent governance has been more of a Blue thing than a Red thing for the past few decades. Yes, Red Congresses helped enforce fiscal discipline on them, and that's good, but no Congress has been able to get much competence out of a Red executive branch. So I think it is reasonable for the sane, moderate, market-oriented people to put their energy into keeping the Blues reasonable. The very fact that there are Berners and AOCs and whatnot is all the more reason to put some effort into keeping the Blues from going crazy.

Of course, one could argue that the Reds also need attention, but one could just as easily argue that the Reds are a lost cause. So, while I will never fault a sane person who decides to try to talk sense into someone, I also won't fault them for deciding to focus their attention on whichever side seems less hopeless to them.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Aresen
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by Aresen » 08 Mar 2019, 22:57

The SMOD is non-partisan.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by JasonL » 08 Mar 2019, 23:00

To be clear- the invocation of revolution is not mine it’s Warrens. His view is the someone needs to overturn the cart and I’m a marginal improvement guy if I can get that. I think pursuit of revolutionary change is wrongheaded because I do not think things are all that bad compared to likely outcomes of some big change.

I don’t think the loss of neoliberal consensus will result in revolution I think it will result in significantly worse policy.

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Warren
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Re: Neoliberalism - Booga Booga

Post by Warren » 09 Mar 2019, 16:57

JasonL wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 23:00
To be clear- the invocation of revolution is not mine it’s Warrens.
I was invoking your invocation from like years ago. This is a deep division between us.
And the context has been lost. We're not talking about revolution in the sense of overthrow the government.
It's more Jason wont support Libertarian candidates for office because "No revolutions", preferring to work with "adult" Reps and Dems who will advocate for making small changes that will lower taxes or increase the personal savings rate or whatever while also supporting vast new spending because that's going to happen anyway or something.
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