State of Emergency

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Painboy
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Painboy »

Sanity? Congressional self preservation? Even a stab at considering long term consequences?

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/432 ... ation?ampa

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Aresen
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Re: State of Emergency

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Painboy wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 15:22
Sanity? Congressional self preservation? Even a stab at considering long term consequences?

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/432 ... ation?ampa
The Hill wrote:Republicans in both chambers have criticized the Trump decision as an assault on Congress’s authority that could lead a Democratic president to circumvent lawmakers to take action on climate change or gun control.
Now that Trump has established the precedent, I think "National Emergencies" are the way of the future.
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JD
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by JD »

Aresen wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:11
Now that Trump has established the precedent, I think "National Emergencies" are the way of the future.
He didn't really establish the precedent, he just kind of extended it.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-31 ... d=60294693
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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

Caesar was not the first to cross the Rubicon, nor even the second, but each crossing had consequences for Rome.

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Hugh Akston
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Re: State of Emergency

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If Congress doesn't like the President doing their job, maybe they should try doing it themselves once in a while.
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Mo
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Mo »

JD wrote:
Aresen wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:11
Now that Trump has established the precedent, I think "National Emergencies" are the way of the future.
He didn't really establish the precedent, he just kind of extended it.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-31 ... d=60294693
Using states of emergency for imposing sanctions, which are an executive branch power, is fundamentally different than using a SoE to bypass Congress’ power of the purse. Just like an executive order to declare equal pay by executive branch employees is different than an executive order to intern people of Japanese descent.
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Warren
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Re: State of Emergency

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Hugh Akston wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 18:01
If Congress doesn't like the President doing their job, maybe they should try doing it themselves once in a while.
Bazinga!
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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

Trump plans to take another $7 billion away from what Congress appropriated it for and use it to for, all in all, more bricks in The Wall.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/budg ... ntagon-for

I'm sure that some of you can explain to me why I should not fret about the end of separation of powers or checks and balances. So be it. I'm sure this is all fully consistent with the law, for reasons that I would never claim to know.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren promises that on her first day as President she will cancel most student loan debt, and do so without Congress:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -executive

Yes, there's a purported statutory authorization, and I'll defer to experts on whether that interpretation of the statues is correct, but it seems like, um, a wider use of the statute than any predecessor has claimed.

I'll let you guys figure out whether your "Why is T. worrying? Everything is fine and the Republic and separation of powers are quite healthy!" inclinations should prevail, or if you should go with your libertarian opposition to massive interventions in a financial market.

For me, I fear both the expansion of executive power AND the effects on financial markets.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Hugh Akston »

thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 17:38
I'm sure that some of you can explain to me why I should not fret about the end of separation of powers or checks and balances. So be it. I'm sure this is all fully consistent with the law, for reasons that I would never claim to know.
thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 17:38
I'll let you guys figure out whether your "Why is T. worrying? Everything is fine and the Republic and separation of powers are quite healthy!" inclinations should prevail, or if you should go with your libertarian opposition to massive interventions in a financial market.
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Aresen
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Re: State of Emergency

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thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 17:38
Trump plans to take another $7 billion away from what Congress appropriated it for and use it to for, all in all, more bricks in The Wall.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/budg ... ntagon-for

I'm sure that some of you can explain to me why I should not fret about the end of separation of powers or checks and balances. So be it. I'm sure this is all fully consistent with the law, for reasons that I would never claim to know.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren promises that on her first day as President she will cancel most student loan debt, and do so without Congress:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -executive

Yes, there's a purported statutory authorization, and I'll defer to experts on whether that interpretation of the statues is correct, but it seems like, um, a wider use of the statute than any predecessor has claimed.

I'll let you guys figure out whether your "Why is T. worrying? Everything is fine and the Republic and separation of powers are quite healthy!" inclinations should prevail, or if you should go with your libertarian opposition to massive interventions in a financial market.

For me, I fear both the expansion of executive power AND the effects on financial markets.
So, both Team Red and Team Blue are into Rule by Decree. The difference is only who benefits.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo

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Aresen
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Aresen »

thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 19:55
This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
You haven't quite had Marius and Sulla yet, but the Senatus consultum ultimum has been passed.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Warren
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Re: State of Emergency

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thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 19:55
This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
Have you considered suicide?
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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

Warren wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 22:02
thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 19:55
This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
Have you considered suicide?
No way. I've seen what brain death does to people.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
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Warren
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Warren »

Homicide then.
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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

Prosecutors resign after Trump intervenes in Roger Stone case.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/us/p ... ncing.html
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
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Andrew
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Andrew »

thoreau wrote:
12 Feb 2020, 01:07
Prosecutors resign after Trump intervenes in Roger Stone case.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/us/p ... ncing.html
1. The president directly interfering with a criminal case is bad and not the sort of precedent I want set.

2. With that being said, fuck these guys. They're happy to be the foot soldiers of the drug war, mass incarceration, using ridiculous mandatory minimums to negotiate harsher pleas, and every other bad thing the federal criminal system does (while being paid handsomely to do all those things), but this is the bridge too far? Let me find my tiny violin.
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Aresen
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Aresen »

Andrew wrote:
12 Feb 2020, 19:50
thoreau wrote:
12 Feb 2020, 01:07
Prosecutors resign after Trump intervenes in Roger Stone case.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/us/p ... ncing.html
1. The president directly interfering with a criminal case is bad and not the sort of precedent I want set.

2. With that being said, fuck these guys. They're happy to be the foot soldiers of the drug war, mass incarceration, using ridiculous mandatory minimums to negotiate harsher pleas, and every other bad thing the federal criminal system does (while being paid handsomely to do all those things), but this is the bridge too far? Let me find my tiny violin.
Team Andrew. (And thanks Andrew for pointing out what I hadn't thought of.)
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

The President directly interfering with a criminal case will only make those other things worse, not better, by reinforcing the lines dividing the connected and protected from the common shits that they can fuck with. The president who interfered on behalf of his buddy also encouraged cops to be rough with protesters. He pardoned Arpaio. These prosecutors losing their comfy jobs will not halt any excesses. If anything, this episode is reinforcing that you get ahead by being tuff on criminals who don't wear suits, and deferring to well-connected thugs.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
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Jennifer
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Jennifer »

Not content with merely firing Vindman (and his brother) from their White House jobs, Trump wants him to face "military discipline" (punishment) for speaking truth to Congress.

https://www.ibtimes.com/vindman-may-fac ... ys-2920897
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Mo
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Mo »

Andrew wrote:
12 Feb 2020, 19:50
thoreau wrote:
12 Feb 2020, 01:07
Prosecutors resign after Trump intervenes in Roger Stone case.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/us/p ... ncing.html
1. The president directly interfering with a criminal case is bad and not the sort of precedent I want set.

2. With that being said, fuck these guys. They're happy to be the foot soldiers of the drug war, mass incarceration, using ridiculous mandatory minimums to negotiate harsher pleas, and every other bad thing the federal criminal system does (while being paid handsomely to do all those things), but this is the bridge too far? Let me find my tiny violin.
Earlier that same day, Barr excoriated a bunch of "liberal" prosecutors for offering sentences that were too lenient.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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