State of Emergency

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Painboy
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Painboy »

Sanity? Congressional self preservation? Even a stab at considering long term consequences?

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/432 ... ation?ampa

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Aresen
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Re: State of Emergency

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Painboy wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 15:22
Sanity? Congressional self preservation? Even a stab at considering long term consequences?

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/432 ... ation?ampa
The Hill wrote:Republicans in both chambers have criticized the Trump decision as an assault on Congress’s authority that could lead a Democratic president to circumvent lawmakers to take action on climate change or gun control.
Now that Trump has established the precedent, I think "National Emergencies" are the way of the future.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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JD
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by JD »

Aresen wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:11
Now that Trump has established the precedent, I think "National Emergencies" are the way of the future.
He didn't really establish the precedent, he just kind of extended it.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-31 ... d=60294693
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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

Caesar was not the first to cross the Rubicon, nor even the second, but each crossing had consequences for Rome.

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Hugh Akston
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Re: State of Emergency

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If Congress doesn't like the President doing their job, maybe they should try doing it themselves once in a while.
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Mo
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Mo »

JD wrote:
Aresen wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:11
Now that Trump has established the precedent, I think "National Emergencies" are the way of the future.
He didn't really establish the precedent, he just kind of extended it.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-31 ... d=60294693
Using states of emergency for imposing sanctions, which are an executive branch power, is fundamentally different than using a SoE to bypass Congress’ power of the purse. Just like an executive order to declare equal pay by executive branch employees is different than an executive order to intern people of Japanese descent.
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Warren
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 18:01
If Congress doesn't like the President doing their job, maybe they should try doing it themselves once in a while.
Bazinga!
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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

Trump plans to take another $7 billion away from what Congress appropriated it for and use it to for, all in all, more bricks in The Wall.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/budg ... ntagon-for

I'm sure that some of you can explain to me why I should not fret about the end of separation of powers or checks and balances. So be it. I'm sure this is all fully consistent with the law, for reasons that I would never claim to know.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren promises that on her first day as President she will cancel most student loan debt, and do so without Congress:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -executive

Yes, there's a purported statutory authorization, and I'll defer to experts on whether that interpretation of the statues is correct, but it seems like, um, a wider use of the statute than any predecessor has claimed.

I'll let you guys figure out whether your "Why is T. worrying? Everything is fine and the Republic and separation of powers are quite healthy!" inclinations should prevail, or if you should go with your libertarian opposition to massive interventions in a financial market.

For me, I fear both the expansion of executive power AND the effects on financial markets.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Hugh Akston
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Hugh Akston »

thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 17:38
I'm sure that some of you can explain to me why I should not fret about the end of separation of powers or checks and balances. So be it. I'm sure this is all fully consistent with the law, for reasons that I would never claim to know.
thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 17:38
I'll let you guys figure out whether your "Why is T. worrying? Everything is fine and the Republic and separation of powers are quite healthy!" inclinations should prevail, or if you should go with your libertarian opposition to massive interventions in a financial market.
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Aresen
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Aresen »

thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 17:38
Trump plans to take another $7 billion away from what Congress appropriated it for and use it to for, all in all, more bricks in The Wall.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/budg ... ntagon-for

I'm sure that some of you can explain to me why I should not fret about the end of separation of powers or checks and balances. So be it. I'm sure this is all fully consistent with the law, for reasons that I would never claim to know.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren promises that on her first day as President she will cancel most student loan debt, and do so without Congress:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... -executive

Yes, there's a purported statutory authorization, and I'll defer to experts on whether that interpretation of the statues is correct, but it seems like, um, a wider use of the statute than any predecessor has claimed.

I'll let you guys figure out whether your "Why is T. worrying? Everything is fine and the Republic and separation of powers are quite healthy!" inclinations should prevail, or if you should go with your libertarian opposition to massive interventions in a financial market.

For me, I fear both the expansion of executive power AND the effects on financial markets.
So, both Team Red and Team Blue are into Rule by Decree. The difference is only who benefits.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Aresen
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Aresen »

thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 19:55
This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
You haven't quite had Marius and Sulla yet, but the Senatus consultum ultimum has been passed.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Warren
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Warren »

thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 19:55
This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
Have you considered suicide?
It’s not that I don’t have a voice it’s that everyone else is living wrong and I don’t get a veto. - JasonL

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thoreau
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by thoreau »

Warren wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 22:02
thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 19:55
This thing is on auto-pilot. The next President will issue more decrees than Trump but still compromise with Congress on something. And when people sue, the President will send lawyers to the courts to make it seem like they're paying attention, and if a decree is struck down they'll find a way to do the same damn thing (or nearly the same damn thing) by some mechanism slightly different from the one struck down by the court, and everyone will say "See, we still have the rule of law!"

But I say that the Rubicon is crossed and the Republic is dead.
Have you considered suicide?
No way. I've seen what brain death does to people.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Warren
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Re: State of Emergency

Post by Warren »

Homicide then.
It’s not that I don’t have a voice it’s that everyone else is living wrong and I don’t get a veto. - JasonL

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