Antivaxxers

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 20 Mar 2019, 19:52

Aresen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 19:34
Mo wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 18:25
WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551
I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.
That's pretty much a given for 1/3 of people who have had the vaccine or had chicken pox.
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Mo
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Mo » 20 Mar 2019, 20:07

I thought the vaccine prevents shingles because you never had the varicella virus.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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dhex
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by dhex » 20 Mar 2019, 20:26

You can get shingles with the weakened live vaccine but it's supposed to be less serious.

There's also a shingles vaccine or three iirc.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 20 Mar 2019, 20:44

Aresen wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 23:58
Hugh Akston wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 23:35
Six year old OR boy spends 3 1/2 months and $800k recovering from an easily-prevented case of tetanus
The child had to be sedated. A tracheostomy was performed so that he could be put on a mechanical ventilator to help him breath. He remained on the ventilator for more than five weeks. Because of the pain caused by the spasms, he required muscle relaxants as well as drugs to stabilize his blood pressure in addition to the medications to counter the tetanus toxins.
Good thing his parents didn't endanger their child by vaccinating him.
$811K in medical bills. And, if I read the story correctly, they are STILL refusing to vaccinate their kid.
They say that, but the truth is they can't afford it any longer.

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 20 Mar 2019, 20:49

Mo wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 20:07
I thought the vaccine prevents shingles because you never had the varicella virus.
We're talking about the new one right? I'm not terribly familiar with it but I want to say you are correct? I'll ask traveller. She's always going on about shingles. I'm not joking. Always.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 20 Mar 2019, 21:14

Pham Nuwen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 20:49
Mo wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 20:07
I thought the vaccine prevents shingles because you never had the varicella virus.
We're talking about the new one right? I'm not terribly familiar with it but I want to say you are correct? I'll ask traveller. She's always going on about shingles. I'm not joking. Always.
Yes. You can't get shingles if you've never had chicken pox. It's a recurrence of the varicella zoster virus which never entirely leaves a once-infected body.

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Shem
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Shem » 20 Mar 2019, 21:56

Aresen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 19:34
Mo wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 18:25
WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551
I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.
If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 20 Mar 2019, 21:56

I wasn't aware there was one without a weakened virus. What's it got? Viral protein elements? I guess technically you only need the antigen parts but that's kind of where my knowledge drifts off completely as I don't know how you would get them without the virus itself. I'll talk to traveller.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 20 Mar 2019, 21:58

Shem wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 21:56
Aresen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 19:34
Mo wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 18:25
WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551
I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.
If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).
There's a strong suspicion that the varicella vaccine currently used is causing shingles at very early and unheard of ages. I'm not aware of whether it is true or not.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Shem
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Shem » 20 Mar 2019, 23:15

Pham Nuwen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 21:58
Shem wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 21:56
Aresen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 19:34
Mo wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 18:25
WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551
I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.
If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).
There's a strong suspicion that the varicella vaccine currently used is causing shingles at very early and unheard of ages. I'm not aware of whether it is true or not.
He came by his immunity the old fashioned way. Just bad luck and genetics.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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Mo
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Mo » 21 Mar 2019, 07:07

Pham Nuwen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 21:58
Shem wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 21:56
Aresen wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 19:34
Mo wrote:
20 Mar 2019, 18:25
WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551
I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.
If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).
There's a strong suspicion that the varicella vaccine currently used is causing shingles at very early and unheard of ages. I'm not aware of whether it is true or not.
Interesting. It looks like it does because it reduces the amount of reexposure to chickenpox. Looks like shingles tends to come on at younger ages as well, but the severity is greatly reduced.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 103555.htm
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by JasonL » 21 Mar 2019, 09:32

I learn things all the time here on the gryll.

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 21 Mar 2019, 23:37

JasonL wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 09:32
I learn things all the time here on the gryll.
I truly feel that this is what keeps us together as a group. We may have serious arguments. And sometimes it's a little to much for peeps. But mostly I feel that as a group we just kind of go, "Huh. So that's a thing. Didn't know that. Interesting.".
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Mo
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Mo » 02 May 2019, 18:01

So good news: My sister is pregnant.

Bad news: Turns our my BiL is an anti-vaxxer and now they’re fighting about it

I swear to god I will kidnap that kid and give my niece/nephew a back alley MMR vaccine.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Jennifer » 02 May 2019, 18:08

Oh, hell. Hopefully your sister's pro-vaccine attitudes will override her husband's idiocy, where their kids are concerned.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Hugh Akston » 02 May 2019, 18:10

I mean there's really not that much to fight about. Sis can just say "Okay I don't agree with your opinion but I respect it." Then make the vaccine appointment.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
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thoreau
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by thoreau » 02 May 2019, 18:47

Mo wrote:So good news: My sister is pregnant.

Bad news: Turns our my BiL is an anti-vaxxer and now they’re fighting about it

I swear to god I will kidnap that kid and give my niece/nephew a back alley MMR vaccine.
Why is your sister reproducing with someone that stupid? Is she trying to corrupt the bloodline?

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dhex
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by dhex » 02 May 2019, 20:18

Mo wrote:
02 May 2019, 18:01
So good news: My sister is pregnant.

Bad news: Turns our my BiL is an anti-vaxxer and now they’re fighting about it

I swear to god I will kidnap that kid and give my niece/nephew a back alley MMR vaccine.
Oh jeeze man lemme know if you need help I have a Kia soul with tinted windows and some bomb ass mixtapes
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

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Mo
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Mo » 03 May 2019, 05:07

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 03 May 2019, 22:25

You can't give the MMR for the first year.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Mo
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Mo » 04 May 2019, 18:11

Look man, I have a 3 year old now. Ain’t nobody got time to memorize vaccination schedules.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 04 May 2019, 18:16

I have a 2 and 1/2 year old and a 4 year old. I feel you. Robbie got an MMR at 8 months. Kaiser wouldn't count it towards his schedule. That's how I know is all.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Jennifer » 04 May 2019, 18:22

Regarding antivaxxers in general -- or, more specifically, antivaxxers who gussy up their arguments in libertarian dressings -- there IS one argument I've seen which I consider bullshit, but haven't been able to figure out le mot juste to explain why.

Background: I have one antivax FB friend (though she will bristle if you call her "antivax": she is NOT anti-vaccine, she sez, just anti-DANGEROUS vaccines, and anti MANDATORY vaccinations .... basically the antivax version of Glenn Beck's "I'm not saying anything; I'm just asking questions"). She's one of those "measles is a VERY MILD illness that even confers benefits" types, though her thinking has evolved a little bit over the years: she used to say similar things about whooping cough, whereas now, she admits that WC is enough of a danger to infants that she chose to get the vaccine .... though she still opposes making it mandatory for anyone, even a hypothetical unvaccinated adult who spends a lot of time around infants, or at least goes places infants and/or their caregivers are likely to be.

And, after questioning, it appears her oppostion to making ANY vaccine mandatory is based on a combination of a hyper-individualistic view of "personal freedom", coupled with a very high "fear of personal harm" -- IIRC somewhere she DID posit that IF a given vaccine could be proven 100 percent safe for every person on the planet, ever, she MIGHT be willing to mandate vaccination. But so long as there is even the slightest chance that anyone might have an adverse effect to any vaccine, she will not mandate it. (Apparently, even if the adverse effects are FAR milder than whatever disease the vaccine treats -- this is the same woman who, on another thread, mentioned her baby having "a day of fever and lethargy" after a vaccination as reasons why vaccines are dangerous. And apparently, she thinks "One day of guaranteed post-vaccination fever and lethargy" is worse than "the risk of the far worse, possibly fatal, disease that vaccine prevents."

Also, FWIW, she completely ignores my repeated mention of the standard liberty debate over conflicting rights -- when two people or two groups claim conflicting rights, whose rights take priority? Is my presumed right to refuse a vaccination and re-introduce a serious disease into a population more important than a population's presumed right to eradicate a serious disease (or keep it eradicated)? Or vice-versa?

So... have any of you some suggestions as to what I should say next time this comes up? This person is not the only "liberty" person or group I've seen who view ANY form of mandatory vaccination as a major threat to liberty because "the government has no right to force us to put XYZ in our bodies."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 04 May 2019, 18:39

She's a dishonest, selfish, stupid liar. You should unfriend her. That's how you win, baby. Scorched earth!

But seriously. She's a dishonest, selfish, stupid liar. You will never convince her. And you should unfriend her.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Antivaxxers

Post by Hugh Akston » 04 May 2019, 18:51

Ronald Bailey had a debate with Jeffrey Singer about vaccines that takes place almost exclusively in the libertarian sphere of thought, so it's worth perusing that for ideas.
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