Calling 2024 for AOC

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Jasper
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Jasper » 17 Jan 2019, 10:00

Now that she's part of "The System", she'll be changing that part then, right?
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Mo
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Mo » 17 Jan 2019, 10:06

Has a 1st term House member ever accomplished anything aside from making noise?
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Aresen
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Aresen » 17 Jan 2019, 10:36

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 10:06
Has a 1st term House member ever accomplished anything aside from making noise?
That was my reaction to her promise to push through a 'progressive agenda.' Welcome to being a junior member of a sub-committee, AOC, hopefully you'll be able to get some local pork into the F35 authorization bill.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Mo » 17 Jan 2019, 10:46

Aresen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 10:36
Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 10:06
Has a 1st term House member ever accomplished anything aside from making noise?
That was my reaction to her promise to push through a 'progressive agenda.' Welcome to being a junior member of a sub-committee, AOC, hopefully you'll be able to get some local pork into the F35 authorization bill.
She won't even get that. She's the junior member on the Committee on Financial Services.

Also, for all the noise AOC made, she got the same share as HRC in 2016 and less than Obama in 2012.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Warren
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Warren » 17 Jan 2019, 11:13

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 10:46
Aresen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 10:36
Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 10:06
Has a 1st term House member ever accomplished anything aside from making noise?
That was my reaction to her promise to push through a 'progressive agenda.' Welcome to being a junior member of a sub-committee, AOC, hopefully you'll be able to get some local pork into the F35 authorization bill.
She won't even get that. She's the junior member on the Committee on Financial Services.

Also, for all the noise AOC made, she got the same share as HRC in 2016 and less than Obama in 2012.
I think this misses the point. She is making more noise as a junior member. No she isn't going to sponsor any legislation but she is controlling the conversation. Nobody was talking about 70% income tax, new green deal, etc. None of those things are going anywhere. But she ushers in a shift in tone with the legislature. We can look forward to aggressive socialism as a dominate narrative in the coming years. I'm in the "We've seen this before with the tea party" camp. All the noise will ultimately be co-opted into servicing cronyism.
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Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Mo » 17 Jan 2019, 12:14

Awesome. Cool, she’s lefty Alan West, David Brat or Joe Walsh. Their impact has been squat.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by JasonL » 17 Jan 2019, 17:41

Is the idea that the entire demsoc movement is going to be impotent or just AOC?

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Mo
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Mo » 17 Jan 2019, 18:05

There are two DemSocs in the House. 2. As in not enough to play a half decent game of Settlers of Catan. They may succeed in shifting the party a little to the left, but it’s not like the antics of Tlaib and Cortez are setting themselves up as kingmakers.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Pham Nuwen » 17 Jan 2019, 18:26

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 18:05
There are two DemSocs in the House. 2. As in not enough to play a half decent game of Settlers of Catan. They may succeed in shifting the party a little to the left, but it’s not like the antics of Tlaib and Cortez are setting themselves up as kingmakers.
I don't know, man. I feel like anything that looks obvious is now suspect in the age of trump.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Eric the .5b » 17 Jan 2019, 19:19

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 06:57
Eric the .5b wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 03:40
Shem wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 00:58
You're still not addressing her point.
I've addressed it sufficiently. If anything, she was perfectly capable of getting a loan.
Her alternative being having to obtain a short term loan at usurious rates makes her case more than it goes against it. I think having a minimalist Congressional dorm so that Congresscritters can have somewhere to reside when doing business in the Capitol would be a superior alternative.
Only if all members of Congress and the Senate have to live in them whenever they are in DC. Otherwise, they get enough perks, and I have no pity for freshmen legislators.

Again, the pretense that her situation is similar to the general public's doesn't hold up. Her situation is pretty much only shared by freshmen members of Congress, which is a damn small number of people. Anyone else will live in a cheap apartment, stop keeping the second apartment in New York, or do any number of things to actually manage to adult. The more you make the situation of Some Random Person Moving to DC For a Job actually resemble hers, the less sympathetic that situation is.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Shem » 17 Jan 2019, 20:50

Eric the .5b wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 19:19
Again, the pretense that her situation is similar to the general public's doesn't hold up.
Again, she never represented it as being similar to a situation faced by the general public. It was fundamentally a comment about the difficulties non-wealthy people face in serving in Congress, that was made into an argument about the lives of the general public by a mixture of careless reporting and the internet telephone game.

I like the idea of making dormitory living compulsory for Representatives and Senators in DC.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Aresen » 17 Jan 2019, 20:54

Shem wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 20:50
I like the idea of making dormitory living compulsory for Representatives and Senators in DC.
With a shared bathroom.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by thoreau » 17 Jan 2019, 21:01

Nobody should have to live with Steve King.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Eric the .5b » 17 Jan 2019, 21:26

Shem wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 20:50
Eric the .5b wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 19:19
Again, the pretense that her situation is similar to the general public's doesn't hold up.
Again, she never represented it as being similar to a situation faced by the general public.
No, people in this thread arguing with me did.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jan 2019, 22:41

Eric the .5b wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 21:26
Shem wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 20:50
Eric the .5b wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 19:19
Again, the pretense that her situation is similar to the general public's doesn't hold up.
Again, she never represented it as being similar to a situation faced by the general public.
No, people in this thread arguing with me did.
I definitely view it as a situation where "the general public" is more likely to think "Yeah, I can see myself in a similar situation, especially at her age" as opposed to "A 29-year-old who can't afford two apartments while simultaneously going three months without a salary??!! My God, how can I ever respect such a person?"
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Pham Nuwen » 17 Jan 2019, 22:45

I don't think empathy on that scale is a thing, jen.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jan 2019, 22:47

Pham Nuwen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:45
I don't think empathy on that scale is a thing, jen.
The sneers I've seen basically boil down to "She should be able to handle this with no difficulty," though whether the critics think every 29-year-old should be able to pull this off, or only the ones who successfully ran for Congress, will sometimes vary.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jan 2019, 22:49

This pretty much sums up both sides of the debate, as I've seen it:

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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Ellie » 17 Jan 2019, 22:53

Jennifer wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:47
Pham Nuwen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:45
I don't think empathy on that scale is a thing, jen.
The sneers I've seen basically boil down to "She should be able to handle this with no difficulty"
Considering that in the exact same tweet that she announced the problem, she said "don't worry btw - we're working it out!" it doesn't sound like there WAS that much difficulty in handling it. And yet it's also simultaneously a huge systematic problem, according to her. But don't worry. Btw.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by JasonL » 17 Jan 2019, 22:54

That’s her move.

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Pham Nuwen » 17 Jan 2019, 22:55

Jennifer wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:47
Pham Nuwen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:45
I don't think empathy on that scale is a thing, jen.
The sneers I've seen basically boil down to "She should be able to handle this with no difficulty," though whether the critics think every 29-year-old should be able to pull this off, or only the ones who successfully ran for Congress, will sometimes vary.
I kind of went full stop at your, "yeah, I can see myself in a similar situation" part. My experience is that the vast majority of people don't think in those terms. It tends to be in a strange warped vision where they did something similiar whether they did something vastly different or not. Or think they would never do that when the fact is they would have jumped at the chance but are to ... well ... themselves ... to do something like run for congress while a bartender. But I'm very cynical when it comes to people and their supposed intentions.
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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jan 2019, 22:56

Ellie wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:53
Jennifer wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:47
Pham Nuwen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:45
I don't think empathy on that scale is a thing, jen.
The sneers I've seen basically boil down to "She should be able to handle this with no difficulty"
Considering that in the exact same tweet that she announced the problem, she said "don't worry btw - we're working it out!" it doesn't sound like there WAS that much difficulty in handling it. And yet it's also simultaneously a huge systematic problem, according to her. But don't worry. Btw.
FWIW, I do think it's a sign of a larger systemic problem: for the most part, only rich people can afford to be in Congress.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jan 2019, 23:02

Pham Nuwen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:55
Jennifer wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:47
Pham Nuwen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:45
I don't think empathy on that scale is a thing, jen.
The sneers I've seen basically boil down to "She should be able to handle this with no difficulty," though whether the critics think every 29-year-old should be able to pull this off, or only the ones who successfully ran for Congress, will sometimes vary.
I kind of went full stop at your, "yeah, I can see myself in a similar situation" part.
Specifically, the situation of having difficulty finding/affording an apartment in DC while also maintaining a household in the northeast, and the situation of having money be tight for a few months though I know it will improve soon-ish? That's what I find relatable.
My experience is that the vast majority of people don't think in those terms. It tends to be in a strange warped vision where they did something similiar whether they did something vastly different or not. Or think they would never do that when the fact is they would have jumped at the chance but are to ... well ... themselves ... to do something like run for congress while a bartender. But I'm very cynical when it comes to people and their supposed intentions.
Well, yeah -- there ARE a lot of people sneering at her for this, and not just the Candace Owens-types, either.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by thoreau » 17 Jan 2019, 23:04

Jennifer wrote:
Ellie wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:53
Jennifer wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:47
Pham Nuwen wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 22:45
I don't think empathy on that scale is a thing, jen.
The sneers I've seen basically boil down to "She should be able to handle this with no difficulty"
Considering that in the exact same tweet that she announced the problem, she said "don't worry btw - we're working it out!" it doesn't sound like there WAS that much difficulty in handling it. And yet it's also simultaneously a huge systematic problem, according to her. But don't worry. Btw.
FWIW, I do think it's a sign of a larger systemic problem: for the most part, only rich people can afford to be in Congress.
Then how is it that she was able to work it out?

Oh, right, because anyone who can organize and win a campaign for Congress will wind up with all sorts of friends in the DC area, and not just the shady kind.

I don't really see what the problem is. She can't afford two residences before the first paycheck arrives but has a good network so she's fine.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Jennifer
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jan 2019, 23:06

thoreau wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 23:04

I don't really see what the problem is. She can't afford two residences before the first paycheck arrives but has a good network so she's fine.
The problem is that, when a reporter asked her why she didn't immediately move to DC after winning the election, she mentioned the expense as a reason, and many people find this worthy of scorn.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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