Calling 2024 for AOC

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JD
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by JD » 08 Feb 2019, 10:09

Hugh Akston wrote:
07 Feb 2019, 21:53
This is my favorite hand-waving justification:
This does not require “new taxes” or “more debt” while inflation is nonexistent. And since (a) well over $5 trillion in tax cut and war expenditures in recent years have not triggered inflation...
I...what? Seriously? I'm really trying to figure out what's being argued here. It appears to be saying that tax cuts and war expenditures should cause inflation, but they haven't. Even if you really believed that inflation is caused by letting people keep their own money (because then they might save it or spend it? As opposed to the government, which will...save it or spend it?) you might not want to promptly shoot your argument in the foot by noting that it doesn't work that way.
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JasonL
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by JasonL » 08 Feb 2019, 10:32

You should totally watch some videos of the MMT people explaining how sovereign debt doesn't matter if it's denominated in the currency you can print. It's "impossible" to be unable to repay debt. But what about sovereign debt crises we've seen elsewhere" booga booga! not us.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 08 Feb 2019, 10:44

My guess is that it wasn't the money, it was trying to find an apartment that would let her keep all those shaggy dogs.

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Aresen
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Aresen » 08 Feb 2019, 11:19

JasonL wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 10:32
You should totally watch some videos of the MMT people explaining how sovereign debt doesn't matter if it's denominated in the currency you can print. It's "impossible" to be unable to repay debt. But what about sovereign debt crises we've seen elsewhere" booga booga! not us.
Well, they're generally a little better in production value than flerfer or antivaxx videos.
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Ellie
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Ellie » 08 Feb 2019, 11:40

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 10:44
My guess is that it wasn't the money, it was trying to find an apartment that would let her keep all those shaggy dogs.
Image
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Mo
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Mo » 08 Feb 2019, 11:54

JasonL wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 09:42
I've never understood from MMT people how they see something like Greece or Spain (they had their own Green New Deal) and the fallout from their debts. Under MMT terms it literally shouldn't matter - there's no such thing as stressing your economy with debt so long as you are "lending to each other".
Greece and Spain don't really apply under any monetary theory since they have no control over their monetary base.
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nicole
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by nicole » 08 Feb 2019, 12:13

Andrew wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 09:24
JasonL wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 09:04
I can’t believe they just went full MMT. It’s not even trying to hide from its candyland childishness.
Full MMT or full DMT?
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING
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nicole
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by nicole » 08 Feb 2019, 12:14

JasonL wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 09:42
I've never understood from MMT people how they see something like Greece or Spain (they had their own Green New Deal) and the fallout from their debts. Under MMT terms it literally shouldn't matter - there's no such thing as stressing your economy with debt so long as you are "lending to each other".
Isn't the problem there that they couldn't print their own euro?
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thoreau
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by thoreau » 08 Feb 2019, 12:22

I can see AOC losing a primary challenge in 2022. She's all sound and fury, and her base of support skews young (which is not a reliable group of voters). She won't be challenged in 2020 (runs against The Narrative), but I can see her district lines being redrawn after the 2020 census, providing the Blues with an opportunity to usher her out in the primary. Split her support, make her choose between a district with a popular incumbent or a district that a popular local pol was planning to run in, and maybe she loses a primary.
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Aresen
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Aresen » 08 Feb 2019, 12:36

I don't think she can lose before her 'best before' date. Right now, she's got all the free publicity to keep her in the mind of her constituents.

Only a really serious gaffe, like accusing Israel of genocide*, could cause her to lose.

*I picked that one because such a thing is entirely possible given the hard-left circles she moves in.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Mo » 08 Feb 2019, 14:29

If they cut off the Bronx part of her district or make is relatively smaller, they can totally ice her out. The D legislature is pretty conservative.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Shem
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Shem » 08 Feb 2019, 14:33

thoreau wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 12:22
I can see AOC losing a primary challenge in 2022. She's all sound and fury, and her base of support skews young (which is not a reliable group of voters). She won't be challenged in 2020 (runs against The Narrative), but I can see her district lines being redrawn after the 2020 census, providing the Blues with an opportunity to usher her out in the primary. Split her support, make her choose between a district with a popular incumbent or a district that a popular local pol was planning to run in, and maybe she loses a primary.
Not gonna happen. She's firmly within the "better to have her inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in" category. Even if it does mean living with some splashback. They'll just keep her safely bound up in the House for her whole career.

As for her specific points on the green new deal, she might mean them, but insofar as they go anywhere, it'll be as a way to move the Overton Window. And, given the short of inertia this is up against, and the massive expense of continuing as we are, I think I'm ok with that.
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JasonL
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by JasonL » 08 Feb 2019, 15:05

I get the overton window argument but it's a move away from "this can be done look here are how other countries do it" to "literally we are all children and christmas for everyone wee". I kinda thought the demsoc move would be a thing toward the actual european welfare state models, but this is not that.

This move is fine so long as the thesis "nobody cares about anything real anymore" holds. If there's any desire to migrate demsoc stuff into wonkish detail and get something done, this seems profoundly stupid to me.

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Mo
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Mo » 08 Feb 2019, 15:43

I mean the current occupant promised better healthcare that covered everything and was cheaper than Obamacare and the Mexicans would pay for the wall.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by JasonL » 08 Feb 2019, 15:49

I know, but add up all the stuff in that bill and trump's promises - already ludicrous - seem positively level headed.

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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by JasonL » 08 Feb 2019, 15:51

She like Harry Browne of donkey party. Stating what they all believe and want to happen but doing so in a way that seems completely unserious.

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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Aresen » 08 Feb 2019, 15:58

The conviction that someone else can and should pay for it is unshakeable.
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thoreau
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by thoreau » 08 Feb 2019, 16:12

The D's have a non-trivial number of sensible, moderate suburbanites who would have been R's in a previous era, but they see the GOP as crazy and the D's as respectable. I somehow doubt they hold an unshakeable conviction of free stuff uber alles.

Yes, there are plenty who do, but there are also plenty who don't.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Aresen » 08 Feb 2019, 16:43

Would those be the same 'sensible, moderate suburbanites' who dominate the anti-vaxx movement?
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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thoreau
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by thoreau » 08 Feb 2019, 16:56

Aresen wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 16:43
Would those be the same 'sensible, moderate suburbanites' who dominate the anti-vaxx movement?
A little bit, but not much. Some of them may be stay-at-home wives of sensible, moderate suburbanites.

Silicon Valley is notoriously Blue, but I somehow doubt they all sincerely want sky-high taxes on people with 6-digit incomes.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Aresen » 08 Feb 2019, 17:33

thoreau wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 16:56
Aresen wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 16:43
Would those be the same 'sensible, moderate suburbanites' who dominate the anti-vaxx movement?
A little bit, but not much. Some of them may be stay-at-home wives of sensible, moderate suburbanites.

Silicon Valley is notoriously Blue, but I somehow doubt they all sincerely want sky-high taxes on people with 6-digit incomes.
There are a lot of suburban stay-at-home wives for whom 'silicon valley' refers to the cleft between their breast implants.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by dhex » 08 Feb 2019, 21:33

She is very trumpy which is what the kids want. Yelling at people, New media savvy, breaking norms (of the right kind), and promises that mexico/billionaires will pay for it.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 08 Feb 2019, 23:17

El Chapo will pay for everything!

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Shem
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Shem » 09 Feb 2019, 01:53

I dunno, it doesn't seem any crazier than the idea that another trillion dollar tax cut will somehow trigger an explosion of prosperity. Kind of like using the credit card to buy a bunch of crap versus sending all the money to televangelists. Both dumb, but at least the former leaves you with material goods.
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Re: Calling 2024 for AOC

Post by Tuco » 09 Feb 2019, 06:27

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 10:44
My guess is that it wasn't the money, it was trying to find an apartment that would let her keep all those shaggy dogs.
Applause.

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