How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

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Aresen
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Aresen » 02 Jan 2019, 18:10

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 17:49
If I had to bet, I'd bet Trump's approval ratings are soft. There's an underlying core for whom he can do no wrong or, more to the point, they don't care if he does, but the rest are lukewarm in their support and would care about his removal about as much as they would care if their favorite TV show was cancelled.
I thought that at first, during the election and the first few months, but I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that 40% of the US public have sold their souls to the Orange Messiah.* I reached that point at the time of the Putin summit, when Trump literally blamed the USA for the issues between the US and Russia. Any other politician who dared to say such a thing would be impeached, with the Trumpistas leading the way.
Both the nation and the government are sufficiently strong that we can survive vastly more upheaval than the Trump Administration has so far created or than his removal from office would create.
Short of Trump starting a major war with a morning tweet, I agree with you.

*Orange Messiah. Good band name.
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thoreau
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by thoreau » 02 Jan 2019, 18:17

lunchstealer wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 17:55
If you'd say the same about a county sheriff who engaged in similar corruption - that they should be excused from any consequences for participating in serious crimes against opponents or critics until they're out of office in two to six years - then you're at least consistent, but you're batshit crazy. You don't let people be complicit in felonies with actual victims - (theft and disclosure of private emails counts as a felony with an actual victim) - hold on to power that includes power over law enforcement.
This.

Say that someone runs for Sheriff or District Attorney or Mayor or whatever. An outside entity (whether an individual, corporation, corrupt official, whatever) releases hacked emails and the opponent loses. And then that public official tries to shut down the subsequent investigation, going so far as to fire the police detective handling the investigation.

There's simply no case for letting that official stay in office. Whatever procedures are available in state or local law simply have to be used to remove that person from office.
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Kolohe
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Kolohe » 02 Jan 2019, 18:21

Aresen wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 18:10
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 17:49
If I had to bet, I'd bet Trump's approval ratings are soft. There's an underlying core for whom he can do no wrong or, more to the point, they don't care if he does, but the rest are lukewarm in their support and would care about his removal about as much as they would care if their favorite TV show was cancelled.
I thought that at first, during the election and the first few months, but I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that 40% of the US public have sold their souls to the Orange Messiah.* I reached that point at the time of the Putin summit, when Trump literally blamed the USA for the issues between the US and Russia. Any other politician who dared to say such a thing would be impeached, with the Trumpistas leading the way.
Both the nation and the government are sufficiently strong that we can survive vastly more upheaval than the Trump Administration has so far created or than his removal from office would create.
Short of Trump starting a major war with a morning tweet, I agree with you.

*Orange Messiah. Good band name.
I still think DAR is right, in that the numbers he's getting is because unemployment is low, gas prices are low, US casualities from overseas kinetic military actions are low, and the stock market has, until recently, been reaching record highs.

If we starting getting joblessness or bodybags, he's going down into the 20s like Dubya did.
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Kolohe
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Kolohe » 02 Jan 2019, 18:22

And remember Dubya only really started getting unpopular in 2005.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Eric the .5b » 02 Jan 2019, 19:18

lunchstealer wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 17:55
And I don't even insist that you have the exact same analysis as me, but when you call me delusional for having this analysis, that's actually crazy, and it's why people don't take your protestations that you don't support Trump seriously. You might have some quibbles with individual stances, but you seem to think that everyone who doesn't align with your exact level of blase disregard for him is some sort of left-wing lunatic, and that's bullshit.
I'd mildly observe that that's how Warren argues about absolutely fucking everything.

I do admit that it's annoying when the issue is substantive.
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Aresen
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Aresen » 02 Jan 2019, 20:19

Kolohe wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 18:22
And remember Dubya only really started getting unpopular in 2005.
There was a large fraction of Blues who hated Dubya from the outset for 'stealing the election' from Gore.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Pham Nuwen » 02 Jan 2019, 20:52

Eric the .5b wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 19:18
lunchstealer wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 17:55
And I don't even insist that you have the exact same analysis as me, but when you call me delusional for having this analysis, that's actually crazy, and it's why people don't take your protestations that you don't support Trump seriously. You might have some quibbles with individual stances, but you seem to think that everyone who doesn't align with your exact level of blase disregard for him is some sort of left-wing lunatic, and that's bullshit.
I'd mildly observe that that's how Warren argues about absolutely fucking everything.

I do admit that it's annoying when the issue is substantive.
But that's always been his thing. it's just his personality. I rarely think Warren is serious where he takes that stance. Hell, he could come in and state I am wrong and how it's really this and not that. And use examples. Endless examples. I would chuckle and move on.

Maybe that's just me though.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Eric the .5b » 02 Jan 2019, 21:15

Pham Nuwen wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 20:52
But that's always been his thing.
That's what I'm saying.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Eric the .5b » 02 Jan 2019, 21:17

Aresen wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 20:19
Kolohe wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 18:22
And remember Dubya only really started getting unpopular in 2005.
There was a large fraction of Blues who hated Dubya from the outset for 'stealing the election' from Gore.
There was a large fraction of Blues who hated him long before that point for being from Texas, for having an accent, and/or for having an (R) beside his name.

That's a very different matter from the shift in his general popularity in 2005 and 2006.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Pham Nuwen » 02 Jan 2019, 22:10

Eric the .5b wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 21:15
Pham Nuwen wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 20:52
But that's always been his thing.
That's what I'm saying.
Ah. Sorry. I was reading Lunchstealer's comment as your own.
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Mo
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Mo » 03 Jan 2019, 07:24

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 03:10
Mo wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 02:04
The thing about Pence is that he was going to lose reelection in Indiana. What makes one think he could win a national election?
You mean aside from the technical fact that he already has?

I don't know anything about Indiana politics, so I'll just take your word for that, but I think he's managed to be a sufficiently loyal cypher in the public eye that he could ride on whatever coattails Trump has left after he's out of office. That's not nothing. Plus he's a Dominionist, which is enough for any sane person to vote against him but, in case you haven't noticed, the electorate is largely insane. Big-Box Evangelicals would spluge more over Pence than Louis C.K. over a green room filled with willing female open mic-ers. Collection plate money would flow like manna from heaven.

I'm not saying he would win, but I can certainly imagine it happening, especially if the Dems are true to form.
Pence's approval rating before he dropped out of the governor's race was 40% (in a state Trump won 57-38). Pence has the charisma of a warm glass of milk. While he may survive for a bit on being not Trump, the crazy stuff he said like "Mulan will lead to the downfall of society" and "smoking doesn't cause cancer because all smokers don't die of cancer" will make him pretty easy to demonize to the squares. His Vice Presidency has been him acting as dynamically as the resolute desk.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Painboy » 03 Jan 2019, 08:31

MAGA types aren't going anywhere unfortunately. It's not like they were just babes in the woods until being enlightened by Trump. This stuff has been building for a while and Trump just figured out how to harness it.

However I'm not sure if it's repeatable outside of Trump. Trump has a unique shamelessness and flair for the dramatic that the GOP just doesn't really possess in any degree. Most Republicans are far more like Pence than Trump. They're a conservative status quo party at heart. Most of their fire breathers come from the religious ranks and don't play well outside their own constituencies.

What I'm curious about is how he behaves once he's out of office. Is he going to go back to reality TV business deal guy or is he going stay a political rabble rouser? The kind of adoration you get from the latter is a potent drug.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by JasonL » 03 Jan 2019, 08:49

I think it’s a bit of a mistake to think too much in trump only terms with maga heads. It’s part of a global phenomenon which seems unrelated to how big your welfare state is. I don’t really understand it, but nativist populism is running amok everywhere.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by thoreau » 03 Jan 2019, 11:28


Mo wrote:[ the crazy stuff he said like
...
"smoking doesn't cause cancer because all smokers don't die of cancer"
I had no idea that Christian Dominionist Mike Pence was an Objectivist! :)

On an unrelated note, my autocorrect guessed that I was trying to type Mike Pendejo.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by lunchstealer » 03 Jan 2019, 17:33

JasonL wrote:
03 Jan 2019, 08:49
I think it’s a bit of a mistake to think too much in trump only terms with maga heads. It’s part of a global phenomenon which seems unrelated to how big your welfare state is. I don’t really understand it, but nativist populism is running amok everywhere.
Like fascism in the '20s, it's a backlash against liberalism and technocracy in the specific form of a rebellion against the idea of restraint in the public sphere. People have gotten sick of liberals telling them 'hey you can't do whatever you want,' so when someone comes along and says, 'fuck those guys I'm going to get shit done,' people are loving the fact that they don't have to exercise self-discipline anymore. They're sick of being told to be grownups. Trump, Erdogan, Oban, Bolsonaro, etc, they're a tantrum, in part because the grownups haven't done a good enough job of being grownups, and partly because the terrors of authoritarianism are a generation or more in the past for most of these countries.

I think the only way to manage MAGAism is to convince people that they need to actually return to being careful and taking shit seriously and literally, and generally be grownups in the political sphere. It's a tough sell.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Hugh Akston » 03 Jan 2019, 19:29

Painboy wrote:
03 Jan 2019, 08:31
MAGA types aren't going anywhere unfortunately. It's not like they were just babes in the woods until being enlightened by Trump. This stuff has been building for a while and Trump just figured out how to harness it.

However I'm not sure if it's repeatable outside of Trump. Trump has a unique shamelessness and flair for the dramatic that the GOP just doesn't really possess in any degree. Most Republicans are far more like Pence than Trump. They're a conservative status quo party at heart. Most of their fire breathers come from the religious ranks and don't play well outside their own constituencies.
My google-fu is too weak to find it now, but I seem to recall a few stories surrounding the mid-terms about Republican candidates trying to be like Trump and falling pretty flat in the numbers.
What I'm curious about is how he behaves once he's out of office. Is he going to go back to reality TV business deal guy or is he going stay a political rabble rouser? The kind of adoration you get from the latter is a potent drug.
I think it's going to be Trump rallies forever. It's basically what all former presidents do, but he'll be at tractor pull arenas rather than Wall Street conventions. It's the perfect job for him too. No pinhead assistants nagging him to pay attention to facts or say coherent things. No junior executives undermining his decisions. Just show up and ad-lib for 90 minutes and cash the check.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Tuco » 05 Jan 2019, 07:00

thoreau wrote:
03 Jan 2019, 11:28
Mo wrote:[ the crazy stuff he said like
...
"smoking doesn't cause cancer because all smokers don't die of cancer"
I had no idea that Christian Dominionist Mike Pence was an Objectivist! :)

On an unrelated note, my autocorrect guessed that I was trying to type Mike Pendejo.
Your autocorrect knows.

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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Mo » 05 Jan 2019, 07:33

Hugh Akston wrote:My google-fu is too weak to find it now, but I seem to recall a few stories surrounding the mid-terms about Republican candidates trying to be like Trump and falling pretty flat in the numbers.
VA governor, VA Senate, the Nehlen dude from WI and the cocaine Mitch guy from WV are examples of this.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Mo » 06 Jan 2019, 15:34

And the GSA violating their own policy raises even more questions. With the Smithsonian closed down, why is the NPS keeping open the historic site attached to the hotel owned by the president.

https://apnews.com/a92b044703354064a34217492c5a0923
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by thoreau » 12 Jan 2019, 21:01

JasonL wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 15:45
I heard a guy at the bar the other night say Google was completely controlled by the Clintons and if you google HRC nothing about emails comes up. We did it in the bar and the first thing that came up was an "email timeline". The guy didn't even blink and said trump made them put it back that's great he gets things done.
I just had an experience that's almost as bad: I met a guy (a professor from another school, not sure of his field, didn't stay in the conversation long enough to find out) who claims that the Asian American lawsuit against Harvard went nowhere until Trump won. Because Presidents totally affect how lower courts will handle lawsuits that don't involve the federal government.

Maybe I should have told him about the Google search results conspiracy theory.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Jan 2019, 22:19

thoreau wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 21:01
JasonL wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 15:45
I heard a guy at the bar the other night say Google was completely controlled by the Clintons and if you google HRC nothing about emails comes up. We did it in the bar and the first thing that came up was an "email timeline". The guy didn't even blink and said trump made them put it back that's great he gets things done.
I just had an experience that's almost as bad: I met a guy (a professor from another school, not sure of his field, didn't stay in the conversation long enough to find out) who claims that the Asian American lawsuit against Harvard went nowhere until Trump won. Because Presidents totally affect how lower courts will handle lawsuits that don't involve the federal government.

Maybe I should have told him about the Google search results conspiracy theory.
What are the chances of him making that comment in the presence of Asian Americans?

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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Aresen » 12 Jan 2019, 22:31

Some tin foil hats peak on the right. Some peak on the left.

Libertarian tin foil hats are trilateral.
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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Warren » 13 Jan 2019, 09:25

Aresen wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 22:31
Some tin foil hats peak on the right. Some peak on the left.

Libertarian tin foil hats are trilateral.
The tinfoil tricorn comes with a decoder ring.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Mo » 16 Jan 2019, 16:02

JasonL wrote:You guys are a lot more certain than most legal commenters I’ve seen about how clear the violation on emoluments is. You would be expanding the case law to get a) the president at all; b) arguing that having a hotel or resort or other business transaction is basically the same as taking a salary from a foreign power. That is not an obvious thing beyond the offices of Nancy Pelosi and apparently Grylliade.
TIL the GSA lawyers and GSA IG either work in Nancy Pelosi’s office or are on grylliade.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... hdog-says/
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: How do you solve a problem like a MAGA?

Post by Jennifer » 16 Jan 2019, 16:38

Being libertarian means always assuming that only wild-n-crazy liberals think a Republican president ought to be held to actual, like, standards.
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