Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

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Shem
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Shem » 23 Feb 2019, 20:36

Ellie wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 18:52
Is the outrage here more that he pretended it was MAGA-zombies out for his flesh and not just regular criminals being criminals?
That's a lot of it. Plus, Lochte invented a crime after the fact to cover for the fact that he was being a drunken asshole in a foreign country while representing the United States, while Smollett seems to have stage-managed a premeditated set piece crime for obscure reasons.
thoreau wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 20:05
I see your point, but I do hope that he returns to acting. I don't want to see him blackballed from the industry, nor do I want to see him turn into some sort of Rohrschach figure who's a hero on the social justice lecture circuit or whatever and used by the other side as proof of how broken the left is. I'd rather that he be rehabilitated into an ordinary working actor who's past all that. If he's forever defined by this it will be bad for him and bad for everyone else too.
Why are you going out of your way to advocate for mercy for a guy who isn't even repentant? That's not rehabilitation, that's letting a guy off the hook.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 23 Feb 2019, 21:42

thoreau wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 19:36
Solitudinarian wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 18:44
thoreau wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 11:59
Maybe the best outcome for now, pending some self-reflection and apology, is if the case drop off the front page and receive as much attention as when your crazy neighbor gets prosecuted for false police reports.
I cannot remember the last time you wrote something as clearly wrong as this.
What is the good thing that will come from continued attention to this case?
It's taking our minds off the Oscars?

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 23 Feb 2019, 22:06

I view this act as more douchey and more malicious in several dimensions than your random lied about an event for deflection or attention situations.

I think dhex is right that it’s an escalation of the “dangerous climate” thing that was intended to make dramatic responses justifiable. It feels like that vibe outside the deans office at Evergreen where everyone keeps talking about how they don’t feel safe as they form a mob. Not that it was effective but I think that’s the underlying idea and fuck that guy as a result.

We may someday reach a point where people stop doing the “why would anyone make up an oppression victimization story”, and maybe these things help that but somehow I doubt it.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Eric the .5b » 24 Feb 2019, 02:06

It's especially annoying because, aside from the one who got murdered, the people actually attacked by MAGA-zombies over the last three years or so have gotten little attention at all.

But the real thing is that he exploited—and is still actively trying to exploit—a really shitty national climate.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Warren » 24 Feb 2019, 09:08

JasonL wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 22:06
I view this act as more douchey and more malicious in several dimensions than your random lied about an event for deflection or attention situations.

I think dhex is right that it’s an escalation of the “dangerous climate” thing that was intended to make dramatic responses justifiable. It feels like that vibe outside the deans office at Evergreen where everyone keeps talking about how they don’t feel safe as they form a mob. Not that it was effective but I think that’s the underlying idea and fuck that guy as a result.

We may someday reach a point where people stop doing the “why would anyone make up an oppression victimization story”, and maybe these things help that but somehow I doubt it.
Agree. Gay actor guy is just your bog standard giant douche. The "real crime" here was the "If you doubt his story you're a Racist!" chorus that resounded from all corners of the intelligentsia.
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Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Mo » 24 Feb 2019, 10:20

I’m increasing finding myself anti-anti-Jussie. This story has been flogged so much that people are flogging dust. NR has a section on the front page for “The Jussie Smollett Case”. I think it’s a way for the reluctant Trumpers to justify ignoring that they’re riding with a bunch of racists by tarring all claims of racism as fake based on this high profile case.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Warren » 24 Feb 2019, 10:37

Mo wrote:
24 Feb 2019, 10:20
I’m increasing finding myself anti-anti-Jussie. This story has been flogged so much that people are flogging dust. NR has a section on the front page for “The Jussie Smollett Case”. I think it’s a way for the reluctant Trumpers to justify ignoring that they’re riding with a bunch of racists by tarring all claims of racism as fake based on this high profile case.
*casts askew gaze*
It hasn't even been a story long enough to have been "flogged to dust". Further, for every anti-Jussie story there's got to be two "This doesn't mean it doesn't happen" stories.
What's gone off the rails is the "Racist! Trumpsters are Racist!izing America".
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Feb 2019, 11:01

Mo wrote:I’m increasing finding myself anti-anti-Jussie. This story has been flogged so much that people are flogging dust. NR has a section on the front page for “The Jussie Smollett Case”. I think it’s a way for the reluctant Trumpers to justify ignoring that they’re riding with a bunch of racists by tarring all claims of racism as fake based on this high profile case.
I completely disagree with this take. Of course NR is going to do this, but bluntly I don’t think you’d have any problem whatsoever flogging as we do any instance of racism into a broader narrative about the obvious racism of the right. The claim is you should ask questions and evaluate evidence rather than accepting stories at face value, and that has been deemed unacceptable by the left. So, no, wanting it not to have happened doesn’t mean it didn’t happen or that we should go around accepting stories as though there’s not political and social capital to be gained as a victim.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Aresen » 24 Feb 2019, 11:02

Team Mo and thoreau.

I am so far behind current celebrity stories that, by the time I hear something, I know it's out of date.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Mo » 24 Feb 2019, 12:03

JasonL wrote:
Mo wrote:I’m increasing finding myself anti-anti-Jussie. This story has been flogged so much that people are flogging dust. NR has a section on the front page for “The Jussie Smollett Case”. I think it’s a way for the reluctant Trumpers to justify ignoring that they’re riding with a bunch of racists by tarring all claims of racism as fake based on this high profile case.
I completely disagree with this take. Of course NR is going to do this, but bluntly I don’t think you’d have any problem whatsoever flogging as we do any instance of racism into a broader narrative about the obvious racism of the right. The claim is you should ask questions and evaluate evidence rather than accepting stories at face value, and that has been deemed unacceptable by the left. So, no, wanting it not to have happened doesn’t mean it didn’t happen or that we should go around accepting stories as though there’s not political and social capital to be gained as a victim.
How is any of this different than the breathless coverage of the “widespread” and “popular” knockout game, which was basically isolated teens being assholes combined with racist fear mongering. We didn’t see two new thinkpieces every day of what does breathless reporting of the knockout game mean or say about us as a society. Or all the fake stories like the “carved B on the Romney girl’s face. If there was 3 weeks of non-stop coverage of that fakery, I’d be just as sick of it.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by thoreau » 24 Feb 2019, 13:14

The questions "Does Smollett deserve punishment?" and "Does it need to be an ongoing national story?" are distinct.

That said, the blame isn't entirely on the right. Yes, some of it is like the "knockout game" panic from a few summers ago. But some of it is also just the fact that he's a TV star. Were it not for this setback he could have moved to Minnesota and run for Governor or Senator. Or he could have hosted a reality show and gone on to become Commander-in-Chief.

Still, none of this is healthy, and I wish the story would go away.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 24 Feb 2019, 13:37

Filing a false police report is a crime. That and only that is what deserves punishment. Cops waste resources all the time by over-reacting and the whole point of the press is to hype and sensationalize anything that will boost their own ratings.

I would have never heard of Smollett but for the story and unless he does something noteworthy as an actor somewhere down the road, I'm sure to have forgotten about him along with all the other B and C list performers who once barely crossed my event horizon.

Fact is, neither the Left nor the Right need real cases to grind their axes, so when the flavor of the week turns out to leave a bad taste in their mouths, they do exactly what they were going to do anyway; namely, move on to next week's flavor. Meanwhile, all this talk of punishing performers and ruining their careers because they outraged people whose own identity depends on perpetual outrage really ends up hurting fans. I don't give a crap about Louis C.K., for example; but lots and lots of his fans have been denied their entertainment so the outrage machine can enjoy its entertainment.

It's all nonsense. Well, okay, not all nonsense. Ninety percent nonsense.

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Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Mo » 24 Feb 2019, 14:49

It says a lot about Chicago that they have a 17% homicide clearance rate and devoted over 20 officers to checking out this alleged (at the time) hate crime.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by thoreau » 24 Feb 2019, 15:35

It says that an alleged crime against a person with money and access to the media will get a lot more attention.

Ironically, if Smollett had commanded a bit less attention it's possible that they wouldn't have been able to prove a hoax. He could have kept the image of a victim of an unsolved crime. Of course, that could have put pressure on CPD to solve the case...

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Feb 2019, 15:53

I’m like i don’t care if he’s prosecuted but it is a story.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Eric the .5b » 24 Feb 2019, 15:54

thoreau wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 19:36
Solitudinarian wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 18:44
thoreau wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 11:59
Maybe the best outcome for now, pending some self-reflection and apology, is if the case drop off the front page and receive as much attention as when your crazy neighbor gets prosecuted for false police reports.
I cannot remember the last time you wrote something as clearly wrong as this.
What is the good thing that will come from continued attention to this case?
The argument I've heard? Showing that when rare assholes actually do fake hate crimes, they get busted and publicly nailed to the wall, so as to be able to counter the people who will dismiss any given hate crime as faked.

But then, where was all this worry about that woman who claimed some black guy tried to carve OBAMA on her face, but who was dumb enough to mirror-reverse the letters she cut on herself?
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Mo » 24 Feb 2019, 16:08

JasonL wrote:I’m like i don’t care if he’s prosecuted but it is a story.
How is it a bigger story than the Coast Guard race war dude? That story had all of 30 seconds in the limelight. And it had everything, including being dumb enough to google for that shit on a work (read: US government) computer.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Mo » 24 Feb 2019, 16:09

Eric the .5b wrote:
thoreau wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 19:36
Solitudinarian wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 18:44
thoreau wrote:
23 Feb 2019, 11:59
Maybe the best outcome for now, pending some self-reflection and apology, is if the case drop off the front page and receive as much attention as when your crazy neighbor gets prosecuted for false police reports.
I cannot remember the last time you wrote something as clearly wrong as this.
What is the good thing that will come from continued attention to this case?
The argument I've heard? Showing that when rare assholes actually do fake hate crimes, they get busted and publicly nailed to the wall, so as to be able to counter the people who will dismiss any given hate crime as faked.

But then, where was all this worry about that woman who claimed some black guy tried to carve OBAMA on her face, but who was dumb enough to mirror-reverse the letters she cut on herself?
The worst part was that his logo was an O, which would have no mirror image issues.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by thoreau » 24 Feb 2019, 16:15

Mo wrote:
24 Feb 2019, 16:08
JasonL wrote:I’m like i don’t care if he’s prosecuted but it is a story.
How is it a bigger story than the Coast Guard race war dude? That story had all of 30 seconds in the limelight. And it had everything, including being dumb enough to google for that shit on a work (read: US government) computer.
This I agree with.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Feb 2019, 16:29

If we’d want to say it’s not a story now because it was never a story when he made the claim in the first place, ok. Dude is modestly famous and made extraordinary incendiary public claims. It has to be at least as big a deal that he was full of shit.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Jadagul » 24 Feb 2019, 17:30

I've resolved to actively not learn anything about these sort of twitter firestorm isolated event cases.

Public policy can matter. Statistics can matter. These cases always makes everyone who learns anything about them dumber.

Same with the fucking Covington kids thing. It's possible some high schoolers were assholes, this is an earthshattering revelation we must all be informed about! Wait, maybe some adults were assholes. And this is an earthshattering revelation we must all be informed about.

I have no need to have an opinion about Covington, or Jussie Smollett, or any of these other people. If a crime was committed, police should investigate it appropriately. If someone you know was being an asshole, you maybe should respond appropriately.

But I don't know any of these fuckers, and I will never meet any of them, and I don't need to have an opinion about them.

I refuse to read any article that mentions them.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Warren » 24 Feb 2019, 19:38

JasonL wrote:
24 Feb 2019, 16:29
If we’d want to say it’s not a story now because it was never a story when he made the claim in the first place, ok. Dude is modestly famous and made extraordinary incendiary public claims. It has to be at least as big a deal that he was full of shit.
Exactly.
It wouldn't be much of a story if the hue and cry forbidding even questioning it's veracity wasn't such a big deal to begin with.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 24 Feb 2019, 20:49

Jadagul wrote:
24 Feb 2019, 17:30
I've resolved to actively not learn anything about these sort of twitter firestorm isolated event cases.

Public policy can matter. Statistics can matter. These cases always makes everyone who learns anything about them dumber.

Same with the fucking Covington kids thing. It's possible some high schoolers were assholes, this is an earthshattering revelation we must all be informed about! Wait, maybe some adults were assholes. And this is an earthshattering revelation we must all be informed about.

I have no need to have an opinion about Covington, or Jussie Smollett, or any of these other people. If a crime was committed, police should investigate it appropriately. If someone you know was being an asshole, you maybe should respond appropriately.

But I don't know any of these fuckers, and I will never meet any of them, and I don't need to have an opinion about them.

I refuse to read any article that mentions them.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Number 6 » 24 Feb 2019, 21:02

Jadagul wrote:
24 Feb 2019, 17:30
I've resolved to actively not learn anything about these sort of twitter firestorm isolated event cases.

Public policy can matter. Statistics can matter. These cases always makes everyone who learns anything about them dumber.

Same with the fucking Covington kids thing. It's possible some high schoolers were assholes, this is an earthshattering revelation we must all be informed about! Wait, maybe some adults were assholes. And this is an earthshattering revelation we must all be informed about.

I have no need to have an opinion about Covington, or Jussie Smollett, or any of these other people. If a crime was committed, police should investigate it appropriately. If someone you know was being an asshole, you maybe should respond appropriately.

But I don't know any of these fuckers, and I will never meet any of them, and I don't need to have an opinion about them.

I refuse to read any article that mentions them.
I think I'm on Team Jada here.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by thoreau » 24 Feb 2019, 23:30

This is the reporting that we all need on this case:

Chicago Police Credit Their Extensive Experience Falsifying Evidence For Helping Solve Smollett Case
CHICAGO—Easily spotting what they described as a textbook example of a fabricated crime, members of the Chicago Police Department on Friday credited their own extensive experience falsifying evidence with helping them solve the case of actor Jussie Smollett’s staged attack. “We’ve been doing this sort of thing for decades, so we were really able to bring a lot of expertise to bear on this matter,” said CPD superintendent Eddie Johnson, adding that his officers—many of whom have built their careers on falsifying evidence to further their personal interests—were quick to notice similarities between Smollett’s letter containing crushed aspirin and their own tried-and-true method of planting cocaine on drivers during traffic stops. “One look at that letter, and our detectives, who have forged hundreds of documents themselves, knew it was a fake. And of course, the supposed attack was immediately suspicious because nearly all violent crimes in this city end with a dead black man at the scene. So this was very much an open-and-shut case.” Johnson went on to state that it was a shame Smollett had taken on too much too soon and wasted his potential talent for covering up unlawful, self-serving behavior, as the young man could have had a bright future with the force.
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