Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

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lunchstealer
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Aug 2018, 14:21

Eric the .5b wrote:
13 Aug 2018, 21:39
Unrelated, there needs to be a term for the situation where someone points it that one side of an debate is doing something, someone on that side denies that thing is happening, and immediately, a pile of people on that side start justifying that exact thing that "isn't happening".
Giulianing?
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 Aug 2018, 19:11

lunchstealer wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 14:21
Eric the .5b wrote:
13 Aug 2018, 21:39
Unrelated, there needs to be a term for the situation where someone points it that one side of an debate is doing something, someone on that side denies that thing is happening, and immediately, a pile of people on that side start justifying that exact thing that "isn't happening".
Giulianing?
Was that a thing with him?
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lunchstealer
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by lunchstealer » 15 Aug 2018, 19:15

Eric the .5b wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 19:11
lunchstealer wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 14:21
Eric the .5b wrote:
13 Aug 2018, 21:39
Unrelated, there needs to be a term for the situation where someone points it that one side of an debate is doing something, someone on that side denies that thing is happening, and immediately, a pile of people on that side start justifying that exact thing that "isn't happening".
Giulianing?
Was that a thing with him?
Ever since he got hired by Trump. He's been literally going through the whole gamut sometimes in the same interview.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 Aug 2018, 19:32

lunchstealer wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 19:15
Eric the .5b wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 19:11
lunchstealer wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 14:21
Eric the .5b wrote:
13 Aug 2018, 21:39
Unrelated, there needs to be a term for the situation where someone points it that one side of an debate is doing something, someone on that side denies that thing is happening, and immediately, a pile of people on that side start justifying that exact thing that "isn't happening".
Giulianing?
Was that a thing with him?
Ever since he got hired by Trump. He's been literally going through the whole gamut sometimes in the same interview.
Ah. I dunno, it doesn't have the same ring of deny what some blowhard elsewhere is saying.

I'm talking more like...Oh, to paraphrase a thread elsewhere on the straw ban business in Cali:

Me: "The environmentalists in this thread are completely blowing off the concerns of disabled people."

First Guy: "I'm not seeing that. We're totally being more nuanced."

Second Guy, who's been all over the thread, posts immediately after him: "Well, of course I'm dismissing their concerns. A little hassle for cripples is a small price to pay for helping the environment."

Third Guy, also all over the thread: "Me, Too!"
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by lunchstealer » 16 Aug 2018, 02:19

Ah, I was thinking something more like "There was no collusion, no collusion!" "And we should have better relations with Russia and collusion is totally legal!"
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Ellie » 16 Aug 2018, 13:52

Facebook and Myanmar and the most boring thread title ever: thread split hier viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2756
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Aug 2018, 08:54

Not sure where to put this exactly. Disappointing behaviors of casual acquaintances isn’t a thread into itself. So among the sort of extended group of bar acquaintances I’ve come to know over the years there’s this group of 25-30 yo types who seem like a generally good crew. Recovering emo, some hairdressers, go to festivals, that kind of vibe. Liberal, feminist. There’s apparently some drunken hanging out at someone’s house a couple of weeks ago. One of these guys is a smartass and made a Cards Against Humanity joke sone people didn’t like. One chicks bf super drunk pulls a knife puts it on jokesters forehead and threatens him.

Dude calls cops. Shockingly to me this crew who spends a lot of time talking about toxic masculinity uniformly turns on jokester because narc / gets the boyfriend locked up. Like ... it is straight up victim blaming. I heard them talk about how jokester goes too far a lot but - dude he didn’t pull a weapon how do you not get how shitty that is? That guy could have been shot on the spot with complete moral and ianal but likely legal legitimacy. Why is he not the bad guy? Crazy talk to me.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Dangerman » 24 Aug 2018, 09:20

Wow. We're regressing through Neo-Victorian into Honor Culture dueling over giving offense.

Maybe my sword and pistol skills will be useful if I want to keep playing Scrabble at the local game night.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Highway » 24 Aug 2018, 09:32

Group dynamics are a definite thing, and it might have been that at least some of the group wanted jokester to go away long ago, but were too conflict avoiding to tell him to not hang around. So yeah, pulling a knife is baaaaaad (and yeah the guy got locked up for it) but other dude "needs to face consequences" for being an asshole, at least in some people's minds.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by nicole » 24 Aug 2018, 10:09

It's also very possible that "calling the cops" is considered an escalation WAYYYYYYY beyond "pulling a knife."

I dunno. I would freak out if someone called the cops. That's like a last-ditch thing you don't do unless someone is actually dead. Obviously I don't endorse pulling knives on anyone either but you have to deescalate.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Aug 2018, 10:12

That’s the vibe I don’t get. If I’m within bounds to shoot you, calling cops is waaaay less than that.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Highway » 24 Aug 2018, 10:50

I don't think it's solely "we don't like that you called the cops". It's also "because you called the cops you get off with nothing while other guy goes to jail" so there is some balancing of punishment, especially because jokester started the whole thing. And I don't know them, but I imagine there was plenty of escalation before the knife came out. So jokester is getting his punishment through social ostracism rather than the cops.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Aug 2018, 10:58

Part of me wants to know what the joke was in context, it didn't seem that bad but I'm probably missing something there in the way of a reference. But truthfully another part of me is like - there is no parity or so and so started it thing that works here. I know the guy well enough to know that he didn't use threatening language - probably did something suggesting the other guy isn't very bright after the joke came out. Whatever - you are in a different galaxy when the weapon comes out. There is not really a "yeah but" I can digest on this without asking questions about value priorities.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by dhex » 24 Aug 2018, 11:21

Never bring a knife to a joke fight.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Aresen » 24 Aug 2018, 11:52

dhex wrote:
24 Aug 2018, 11:21
Never bring a knife to a joke fight.
:lol: CTSS
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Aug 2018, 12:11

dhex wrote:Never bring a knife to a joke fight.
Nice! Also yes this.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by nicole » 24 Aug 2018, 13:03

JasonL wrote:
24 Aug 2018, 10:12
That’s the vibe I don’t get. If I’m within bounds to shoot you, calling cops is waaaay less than that.
Obviously that’s true but in most of my experience the thing about calling the cops is kind of like, well if that happens every single person here is getting arrested and life derailed.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Aug 2018, 13:07

All of that is in play because of the guy who threatened someone with a deadly weapon. Be cool doesn’t extend to that zone.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Warren » 24 Aug 2018, 13:44

JasonL wrote:
24 Aug 2018, 13:07
All of that is in play because of the guy who threatened someone with a deadly weapon. Be cool doesn’t extend to that zone.
100% agree. Any social norms where it's not cool to call the cops when someone pulls a knife on you are strictly relegated to Cloud Cuckoo Land.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Painboy » 24 Aug 2018, 13:48

JasonL wrote:
24 Aug 2018, 13:07
All of that is in play because of the guy who threatened someone with a deadly weapon. Be cool doesn’t extend to that zone.
My suspicion is that this incident was an accumulation of things over time and pulling the knife was a response not to the single joke but to a broad pattern of earlier objectionable behavior. The latest being the straw that broke the back. Earlier warnings by others may have been ignored and so an angry inebriated person who has run out of ways to get those warnings across escalates it to the threat of phyiscal force. Not that that justifies pulling a knife, but to those familiar with the context of the situation it may have been seen as someone constantly poking the bull only to be surprised to finally get the horns.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Dangerman » 24 Aug 2018, 14:19

Nicole, I'm going to have to call the cops to report the actions I took in self defense if someone drew a knife on me. So there is no scenario where they don't get called unless you advocate just letting them attack you with a knife, which is what is happening the moment it comes out in his hand. There is no world where he is allowed to hold a knife to someone, then put it away and go about his business.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Jennifer » 24 Aug 2018, 14:32

nicole wrote:
24 Aug 2018, 13:03
JasonL wrote:
24 Aug 2018, 10:12
That’s the vibe I don’t get. If I’m within bounds to shoot you, calling cops is waaaay less than that.
Obviously that’s true but in most of my experience the thing about calling the cops is kind of like, well if that happens every single person here is getting arrested and life derailed.
Everybody there would've been arrested and had their lives ruined had Knifeman stabbed that guy while Knifeman's dipshit friends egged him on. Calling the cops on Knifeman likely prevented that.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 24 Aug 2018, 14:42

Part of my reaction to this is ... if dude had acted like that in response to a denigrating remark from one of the women present - there would be no discussion here. I'll even allow to an extent for a version of getting the horns that involves some kind of drunken fight. All that's gone when he does what he did and I can't imagine any amount of verbal history (again I know the primary well enough to know he can be annoying or call people stupid but is never ever threatening) that would make me side with knife guy in this situation, not even the version of events those people are telling.

I'm hearing things like "why did he wait 30 mins after to call the cops". "When guy wanted to talk to him alone out back he wouldn't even try to talk".

Are you serious? Would anyone expect someone who just had a weapon in their face to act like that?

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Highway » 24 Aug 2018, 14:48

Yeah, I'm not going "out back" to talk to the guy who just pulled a knife on me one-on-one either. In fact, that's a good second reason to call the cops.
Last edited by Highway on 24 Aug 2018, 16:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Jennifer » 24 Aug 2018, 14:53

Jesus Christ, they criticized a man for NOT wanting to be alone with the guy who just threatened him with a deadly weapon? WTF is wrong with these people?

EDIT: Or what Highway said.
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