Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

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Kwix
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Kwix » 29 Jun 2018, 18:37

Eric the .5b wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:22
Jennifer wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:05
When and how did the use of "-ass" as an intensifier get started? As in, someone is not merely a "stupid jerk," but a "stupid-ass jerk?"
You also see "stupid jerk-ass", though the -ass is not so common at the end of nouns.

I'm going to guess ultimately AAVE in the last 20ish years, with some re-aplication in broader use. "Punk-ass" as an adjective dates back to at least the 90s.
Dumb-ass as an adjective dates at least to Red Foreman.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by lunchstealer » 29 Jun 2018, 18:39

Probably started as stupid(adj) ass(n), then became contracted as stupid-ass and dumbass, then the contracted stupid-ass and dumb-ass became adjectives themselves, and then the -ass became an intensifier.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Jennifer » 29 Jun 2018, 18:45

Kwix wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:37
Eric the .5b wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:22
Jennifer wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:05
When and how did the use of "-ass" as an intensifier get started? As in, someone is not merely a "stupid jerk," but a "stupid-ass jerk?"
You also see "stupid jerk-ass", though the -ass is not so common at the end of nouns.

I'm going to guess ultimately AAVE in the last 20ish years, with some re-aplication in broader use. "Punk-ass" as an adjective dates back to at least the 90s.
Dumb-ass as an adjective dates at least to Red Foreman.
Sure, but "dumbass" as a standalone insult -- "Quit being a dumbass" -- is linguistically distinct from "dumb-ass" as a modifier meaning "Exceptionally dumb" -- "He's a dumb jerk" versus "he's a dumb-ass jerk."

I think the same holds true for "stupid jerkass" being distinct from "stupid-ass jerk." (Of course there was always "He is a stupid ass," but in that sentence, "stupid" is modifying the word "ass" -- what kind of ass is he? A stupid one. Whereas "He's a stupid-ass jerk" is pretty much grammatically identical to "He's a stupid jerk," only with "-ass" intensifying the stupid.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Kwix » 29 Jun 2018, 18:57

Jennifer wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:45
Kwix wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:37
Eric the .5b wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:22
Jennifer wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:05
When and how did the use of "-ass" as an intensifier get started? As in, someone is not merely a "stupid jerk," but a "stupid-ass jerk?"
You also see "stupid jerk-ass", though the -ass is not so common at the end of nouns.

I'm going to guess ultimately AAVE in the last 20ish years, with some re-aplication in broader use. "Punk-ass" as an adjective dates back to at least the 90s.
Dumb-ass as an adjective dates at least to Red Foreman.
Sure, but "dumbass" as a standalone insult -- "Quit being a dumbass" -- is linguistically distinct from "dumb-ass" as a modifier meaning "Exceptionally dumb" -- "He's a dumb jerk" versus "he's a dumb-ass jerk."

I think the same holds true for "stupid jerkass" being distinct from "stupid-ass jerk." (Of course there was always "He is a stupid ass," but in that sentence, "stupid" is modifying the word "ass" -- what kind of ass is he? A stupid one. Whereas "He's a stupid-ass jerk" is pretty much grammatically identical to "He's a stupid jerk," only with "-ass" intensifying the stupid.
Oh. I see you have taken my off-handed reference to a television show as trying to contribute to this etymological investigation. Please allow me to set you dumb jerk-asses straight. :mrgreen:
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Jake » 29 Jun 2018, 19:01

Relevant to this discussion:

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Painboy » 29 Jun 2018, 19:59

Jake wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 19:01
Relevant to this discussion:

This was exactly what came to my mind as well.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by lunchstealer » 29 Jun 2018, 20:31

Jennifer wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:45
Kwix wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:37
Eric the .5b wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:22
Jennifer wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 18:05
When and how did the use of "-ass" as an intensifier get started? As in, someone is not merely a "stupid jerk," but a "stupid-ass jerk?"
You also see "stupid jerk-ass", though the -ass is not so common at the end of nouns.

I'm going to guess ultimately AAVE in the last 20ish years, with some re-aplication in broader use. "Punk-ass" as an adjective dates back to at least the 90s.
Dumb-ass as an adjective dates at least to Red Foreman.
Sure, but "dumbass" as a standalone insult -- "Quit being a dumbass" -- is linguistically distinct from "dumb-ass" as a modifier meaning "Exceptionally dumb" -- "He's a dumb jerk" versus "he's a dumb-ass jerk."

I think the same holds true for "stupid jerkass" being distinct from "stupid-ass jerk." (Of course there was always "He is a stupid ass," but in that sentence, "stupid" is modifying the word "ass" -- what kind of ass is he? A stupid one. Whereas "He's a stupid-ass jerk" is pretty much grammatically identical to "He's a stupid jerk," only with "-ass" intensifying the stupid.
The adjectivification came through phrases like, "That's a dumbass idea." Where the idea is that which a dumbass would have. Once it's adjectived, then it branches out, and the '-ass' naturally starts to act like an intensifier.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Aresen » 29 Jun 2018, 20:46

A discussion of the linguistics of the word 'ass' has to be one of the most grylliade things I have ever seen.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Ellie » 29 Jun 2018, 21:21

More about the semantics (though unfortunately not the history) of "-ass" than you probably ever wanted to know: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/6b55/9 ... e75ebc.pdf

Edited to add: more and more scholarship! http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=15735
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Jennifer » 29 Jun 2018, 22:31

Aresen wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 20:46
A discussion of the linguistics of the word 'ass' has to be one of the most grylliade things I have ever seen.
It's even more Grylliade than you thought, because it's a discussion of the linguistics of the suffix "-ass."
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by nicole » 30 Jun 2018, 09:52

I’m not about to tell someone to stop eating on the train, because I don’t want to get the shit beat out of me, but I’m also not about to defend fucking eating on the train. Don’t fucking eat on the train.

I’m also not about to tell someone to stop pissing on the train but I don’t see people defending that.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Aresen » 30 Jun 2018, 16:47

nicole wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 09:52
I’m not about to tell someone to stop eating on the train, because I don’t want to get the shit beat out of me, but I’m also not about to defend fucking eating on the train. Don’t fucking eat on the train.

I’m also not about to tell someone to stop pissing on the train but I don’t see people defending that.
I assume hope you are talking about urban transit as opposed to Amtrak.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by lunchstealer » 30 Jun 2018, 17:29

I can't remember if I've eaten on rail public transit, but I know I've eaten on a bus before. Eating on a bus is like eating in the office. Don't eat something that's going to get everywhere, take precautions not to spill your shit, and don't eat stinky fucking fish. But eating a burrito? Eat your burrito, bro.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by nicole » 30 Jun 2018, 17:34

Aresen wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 16:47
nicole wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 09:52
I’m not about to tell someone to stop eating on the train, because I don’t want to get the shit beat out of me, but I’m also not about to defend fucking eating on the train. Don’t fucking eat on the train.

I’m also not about to tell someone to stop pissing on the train but I don’t see people defending that.
I assume hope you are talking about urban transit as opposed to Amtrak.
Of course.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by dhex » 30 Jun 2018, 20:58

Train food shouting matches make for great worldstar videos and far less fun witness events.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JD » 02 Jul 2018, 10:44

I'll be really interested to hear how the "Scandinavia is perfect" segment of the American left spins this:
COPENHAGEN — When Rokhaia Naassan gives birth in the coming days, she and her baby boy will enter a new category in the eyes of Danish law. Because she lives in a low-income immigrant neighborhood described by the government as a “ghetto,” Rokhaia will be what the Danish newspapers call a “ghetto parent” and he will be a “ghetto child.”

Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.
...
Some [proposals] are punitive: One measure under consideration would allow courts to double the punishment for certain crimes if they are committed in one of the 25 neighborhoods classified as ghettos, based on residents’ income, employment status, education levels, number of criminal convictions and “non-Western background.” Another would impose a four-year prison sentence on immigrant parents who force their children to make extended visits to their country of origin — described here as “re-education trips” —in that way damaging their “schooling, language and well-being.” Another would allow local authorities to increase their monitoring and surveillance of “ghetto” families.
The rationale from the Danes is pretty much what we've been warning of all along:
Critics would say “the state cannot force children away from their parents in the daytime, that’s disproportionate use of force,” said Rune Lykkeberg, the editor in chief of Dagbladet Information, a left-liberal daily newspaper. “But the Social Democrats say, ‘We give people money, and we want something for this money.’ This is a system of rights and obligations.”

Danes have a high level of trust in the state, including as a central shaper of children’s ideology and beliefs, he said. “The Anglo-Saxon conception is that man is free in nature, and then comes the state” constraining that freedom, he said. “Our conception of freedom is the opposite, that man is only free in society.”
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by nicole » 02 Jul 2018, 10:54

The American left loves compulsory state schooling so I can't imagine them objecting.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Warren » 02 Jul 2018, 11:01

nicole wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 10:54
The American left loves compulsory state schooling so I can't imagine them objecting.
HA!
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Ellie » 02 Jul 2018, 11:02

Ugh, that's SO GROSS.
I should have listened to Warren. He was right again as usual.

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Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JasonL » 02 Jul 2018, 12:16

This is the post neoliberal consensus - mandatory state worship with left and right indoctrination elements to ensure the whiteness of your people and the stability of your massive welfare state. And also we hate trade. Fucking great.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by thoreau » 02 Jul 2018, 12:24

Because (1) specific communities are singled out and (2) a particular European culture (including Christmas and Easter!) is celebrated, American liberals will find this an easy call: WHITE SUPREMACY!!! (And, honestly, they'll have a point on this one.)

Now, if it were mandatory for most/all kids, and they talked about diversity being strength, American liberals would support it without hesitation.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by JD » 02 Jul 2018, 12:40

thoreau wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 12:24
Because (1) specific communities are singled out and (2) a particular European culture (including Christmas and Easter!) is celebrated, American liberals will find this an easy call: WHITE SUPREMACY!!! (And, honestly, they'll have a point on this one.)
That's true, in that Denmark has seen a rise in "right-wing" politicians lately - "right-wing" in quotes because that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as it does in the US - but it should be a reminder to folks that "expansive welfare state" has no natural correlation to "let's be welcoming to immigrants" and the correlation may actually run the other way. Leftists love thinking of Scandinavia as some kind of happy Smurf village, conveniently ignoring the fact that their economic liberalism and social liberalism only goes so far (i.e., as far as White Christian Scandinavians, pretty much).
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Ellie » 02 Jul 2018, 12:43

thoreau wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 12:24
Because (1) specific communities are singled out and (2) a particular European culture (including Christmas and Easter!) is celebrated, American liberals will find this an easy call: WHITE SUPREMACY!!! (And, honestly, they'll have a point on this one.)

Now, if it were mandatory for most/all kids, and they talked about diversity being strength, American liberals would support it without hesitation.
I bet if you scrapped the religious stuff and said you're teaching skills that will help all children be equally successful in school, American liberals would be on board.
I should have listened to Warren. He was right again as usual.

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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by thoreau » 02 Jul 2018, 12:49

You wanna turn white liberals against this?

Tell them that sending kids to school so young will make them turn out like Chinese kids. With terrible personalities.
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Re: Random Observations C.A (306 pages is enough)

Post by Painboy » 02 Jul 2018, 13:02

JD wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 10:44
I'll be really interested to hear how the "Scandinavia is perfect" segment of the American left spins this:
COPENHAGEN — When Rokhaia Naassan gives birth in the coming days, she and her baby boy will enter a new category in the eyes of Danish law. Because she lives in a low-income immigrant neighborhood described by the government as a “ghetto,” Rokhaia will be what the Danish newspapers call a “ghetto parent” and he will be a “ghetto child.”

Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.
...
Some [proposals] are punitive: One measure under consideration would allow courts to double the punishment for certain crimes if they are committed in one of the 25 neighborhoods classified as ghettos, based on residents’ income, employment status, education levels, number of criminal convictions and “non-Western background.” Another would impose a four-year prison sentence on immigrant parents who force their children to make extended visits to their country of origin — described here as “re-education trips” —in that way damaging their “schooling, language and well-being.” Another would allow local authorities to increase their monitoring and surveillance of “ghetto” families.
The rationale from the Danes is pretty much what we've been warning of all along:
Critics would say “the state cannot force children away from their parents in the daytime, that’s disproportionate use of force,” said Rune Lykkeberg, the editor in chief of Dagbladet Information, a left-liberal daily newspaper. “But the Social Democrats say, ‘We give people money, and we want something for this money.’ This is a system of rights and obligations.”

Danes have a high level of trust in the state, including as a central shaper of children’s ideology and beliefs, he said. “The Anglo-Saxon conception is that man is free in nature, and then comes the state” constraining that freedom, he said. “Our conception of freedom is the opposite, that man is only free in society.”
Because nothing creates feelings of patriotism and inclusion for one's adopted country like involuntary indoctrination classes for one's kids.

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