No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Generally the first allegation is followed pretty quickly by a bunch more. Not with Keillor. Reporters haven't even been able to pry out details of the original allegation.
There's got to be more to this story. Either Keillor did something worse/more than he claims or his accuser is up to no good. And since he is protesting his innocence I don't think this will just go down the memory hole.
One way or the other, I hope that there is a clean answer, not an ambiguous case with enough contested and undecidable details that partisans from both flanks of the culture war can retreat to their own bubbles of epistemic closure and regard him as (circle one: a part of the rape culture/a victim of the SJWs).
There's got to be more to this story. Either Keillor did something worse/more than he claims or his accuser is up to no good. And since he is protesting his innocence I don't think this will just go down the memory hole.
One way or the other, I hope that there is a clean answer, not an ambiguous case with enough contested and undecidable details that partisans from both flanks of the culture war can retreat to their own bubbles of epistemic closure and regard him as (circle one: a part of the rape culture/a victim of the SJWs).
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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--Shem
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
There's a line between 'I can explain why you shouldn't' and 'creepy/gross' that turns into a motte and bailey. I can tell a friend, 'don't touch people you just met, even if it's in a friendly way, it's about personal space'. I can't seem to get people to define 'creepy' beyond "I don't like that".
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
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Always be suspicious of people who have, or crave, power. - Stanley Kubrick
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"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
And more importantly, "I don't like that from you." That's where the subjective standard is pretty gnarly. I'm fairly certain that there are 1000 behaviors and innuendo jokes that Stevo would get an, "Oh, you, you're so naughty," where if I were lucky I'd get a "Dude. Really. Ew. Stop it."Dangerman wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:20There's a line between 'I can explain why you shouldn't' and 'creepy/gross' that turns into a motte and bailey. I can tell a friend, 'don't touch people you just met, even if it's in a friendly way, it's about personal space'. I can't seem to get people to define 'creepy' beyond "I don't like that".
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"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Man, Ryan Lizza's getting fired so hard I gotta wonder what he did.
". . . even the federalist folk are probably a bit wary, and they're essentially cosplaying the preacher from footloose." - dhex
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
I think a lot of the point is that most guys don't *ever* do those things. Yeah, there's a gray line with subjective standards when you're at the border, but I think a lot of the point is that there's this huge DMZ near the border. Don't go near the actual line. And yeah, maybe with things you say it has a lot to do with charisma. I know I don't have much charisma, certainly not as much as some of my friends. And yeah, I'm more awkward than they are. But I also don't push it. And I doubt lunchstealer pushes it. Those 1000 things, you don't do them, because you know that you'd make people uncomfortable. But if a guy 'doesn't know' that, but keeps doing them, then someone should tell him, because he obviously can't read the signs (or he can, and he actually acts that way because he can 'get away with it'). "That {thing you just did} right there? Don't do that; you can't pull it off and it makes you a creep." "Oh, I can't tell my friend he's being a creep, that's mean." Well, who is going to? Someone who shouldn't have to? Someone else who's in a situation where they're a lot more scared of the consequences, or feels like they have to humor him?lunchstealer wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 17:54And more importantly, "I don't like that from you." That's where the subjective standard is pretty gnarly. I'm fairly certain that there are 1000 behaviors and innuendo jokes that Stevo would get an, "Oh, you, you're so naughty," where if I were lucky I'd get a "Dude. Really. Ew. Stop it."Dangerman wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:20There's a line between 'I can explain why you shouldn't' and 'creepy/gross' that turns into a motte and bailey. I can tell a friend, 'don't touch people you just met, even if it's in a friendly way, it's about personal space'. I can't seem to get people to define 'creepy' beyond "I don't like that".
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
In response to the line of discussion last articulated by Highway, lunchstealer and Dangerman:
I can't find it online, but this reminds me of the SNL sketch about proper office conduct where they were doing a Goofus and Gallant type comparison between Chris Parnell and some super handsome guest of the week. Polite requests to have lunch by Chris' nerdy character were deemed inappropriate and resulted in calls to HR. The super handsome guy acting identically or even squeezing a boob at one point received a radically different response.
I can't find it online, but this reminds me of the SNL sketch about proper office conduct where they were doing a Goofus and Gallant type comparison between Chris Parnell and some super handsome guest of the week. Polite requests to have lunch by Chris' nerdy character were deemed inappropriate and resulted in calls to HR. The super handsome guy acting identically or even squeezing a boob at one point received a radically different response.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn
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"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex
"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD
"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
In practice a lot of what "creepy" actually means is "does not accurately read the reactions of other people and respond appropriately." Sometimes the emphasis is on the last part, because the creepy person is a jerk. Sometimes the emphasis is on the first part, because the creepy person is clueless.
And sometimes the emphasis is really on the middle part, where no one likes the creepy person to begin with and therefore they never get positive reactions to anything.
And sometimes the emphasis is really on the middle part, where no one likes the creepy person to begin with and therefore they never get positive reactions to anything.
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
They just re-did that one with Keenan Thompson as the pervy old [don't recall but blue collar type in an otherwise white collar office] and one of the dignified white guys as the innocent-but-percieved-as-super-creepy HR director. I thought it was an interesting choice to do in the current #MeToo climate.the innominate one wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 18:24In response to the line of discussion last articulated by Highway, lunchstealer and Dangerman:
I can't find it online, but this reminds me of the SNL sketch about proper office conduct where they were doing a Goofus and Gallant type comparison between Chris Parnell and some super handsome guest of the week. Polite requests to have lunch by Chris' nerdy character were deemed inappropriate and resulted in calls to HR. The super handsome guy acting identically or even squeezing a boob at one point received a radically different response.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy
"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL
"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR
"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL
"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
He was the security guard.
They might have been making it an age thing, or as you allude to a class thing. (They definitely didn't make it a black / white thing)
I don't think it particularly worked and that's aside from their timing was off (as it was for most of that episode.
They might have been making it an age thing, or as you allude to a class thing. (They definitely didn't make it a black / white thing)
I don't think it particularly worked and that's aside from their timing was off (as it was for most of that episode.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
I like the connection being made between hrc loss and all the male writers who got dinged for sexual harassment.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Yeah, that idiot who lasted 5 mins as NY Times editor. Gawd.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Mrs. Mo and I were supposed to have lunch in one of Batali's restaurants in Westchester this coming Saturday with some friends. That has since changed.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Well he always was a salami expert.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
And sometimes it's just all the guys who think they're the suave motherfucker while they're not.Jadagul wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 18:28In practice a lot of what "creepy" actually means is "does not accurately read the reactions of other people and respond appropriately." Sometimes the emphasis is on the last part, because the creepy person is a jerk. Sometimes the emphasis is on the first part, because the creepy person is clueless.
And sometimes the emphasis is really on the middle part, where no one likes the creepy person to begin with and therefore they never get positive reactions to anything.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
I would say that falls under "clueless". They are bad enough at reading reactions that they think they are being suave when they are, in fact, not being suave.Eric the .5b wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 00:50And sometimes it's just all the guys who think they're the suave motherfucker while they're not.Jadagul wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 18:28In practice a lot of what "creepy" actually means is "does not accurately read the reactions of other people and respond appropriately." Sometimes the emphasis is on the last part, because the creepy person is a jerk. Sometimes the emphasis is on the first part, because the creepy person is clueless.
And sometimes the emphasis is really on the middle part, where no one likes the creepy person to begin with and therefore they never get positive reactions to anything.
Obviously it can be hard to tell which is actually happening, and often it's a mix (e.g. people who aren't very good at reading reactions because they don't care enough to pay attention).
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Sure. It's just that I never actually see the scenario where someone acts perfectly fine and creeps someone out. I only ever see guys act like unsocialized idiots and then get surprised at the reaction.Jadagul wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 00:54I would say that falls under "clueless". They are bad enough at reading reactions that they think they are being suave when they are, in fact, not being suave.Eric the .5b wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 00:50And sometimes it's just all the guys who think they're the suave motherfucker while they're not.Jadagul wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 18:28In practice a lot of what "creepy" actually means is "does not accurately read the reactions of other people and respond appropriately." Sometimes the emphasis is on the last part, because the creepy person is a jerk. Sometimes the emphasis is on the first part, because the creepy person is clueless.
And sometimes the emphasis is really on the middle part, where no one likes the creepy person to begin with and therefore they never get positive reactions to anything.
Obviously it can be hard to tell which is actually happening, and often it's a mix (e.g. people who aren't very good at reading reactions because they don't care enough to pay attention).
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Sure, so both one and two involve the guy acting like an unsocialized idiot.
But the middle category definitely happens; a good example is "a homeless person trying to talk to most people under, like, any circumstances whatsoever." Almost anything they're going to do will be inappropriate/intrusive, because they're talking to someone who doesn't want to talk to homeless people.
But the middle category definitely happens; a good example is "a homeless person trying to talk to most people under, like, any circumstances whatsoever." Almost anything they're going to do will be inappropriate/intrusive, because they're talking to someone who doesn't want to talk to homeless people.
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Maybe HR departments are too tough on homeless people, then...Jadagul wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 01:06Sure, so both one and two involve the guy acting like an unsocialized idiot.
But the middle category definitely happens; a good example is "a homeless person trying to talk to most people under, like, any circumstances whatsoever." Almost anything they're going to do will be inappropriate/intrusive, because they're talking to someone who doesn't want to talk to homeless people.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Well, there's this, which kind of illustrates the point:the innominate one wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 18:24In response to the line of discussion last articulated by Highway, lunchstealer and Dangerman:
I can't find it online, but this reminds me of the SNL sketch about proper office conduct where they were doing a Goofus and Gallant type comparison between Chris Parnell and some super handsome guest of the week. Polite requests to have lunch by Chris' nerdy character were deemed inappropriate and resulted in calls to HR. The super handsome guy acting identically or even squeezing a boob at one point received a radically different response.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/ ... 1966?snl=1the innominate one wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 18:24I can't find it online, but this reminds me of the SNL sketch about proper office conduct where they were doing a Goofus and Gallant type comparison between Chris Parnell and some super handsome guest of the week. Polite requests to have lunch by Chris' nerdy character were deemed inappropriate and resulted in calls to HR. The super handsome guy acting identically or even squeezing a boob at one point received a radically different response.
Always be suspicious of people who have, or crave, power. - Stanley Kubrick
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
Thanks, pistoffnick. That's it. And I was wrong, it wasn't Chris Parnell, it was Fred Armisten.
Sandy's video is similarly illustrative of the point.
Sandy's video is similarly illustrative of the point.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn
"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD
"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex
"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD
"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex
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Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn
"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD
"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex
"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD
"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex
Re: No touching! - sexual impropriety thread
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch
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