Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

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dbcooper
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by dbcooper » 15 Nov 2017, 19:13

BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
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the innominate one
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by the innominate one » 15 Nov 2017, 19:14

fyodor wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:04
Democrats just lack the courage of their non-convictions.
I'll take that over the Republicans' courage of their shitty convictions.
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 15 Nov 2017, 19:16

dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.

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dbcooper
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by dbcooper » 15 Nov 2017, 19:23

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:16
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.
I need a further explainer on that (I don't know what constitutes obstruction of justice or whether that should be a crime too).

Morally I see no problem with lying to the police, who are free to lie to you.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 15 Nov 2017, 19:27

dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:23
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:16
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.
I need a further explainer on that (I don't know what constitutes obstruction of justice or whether that should be a crime too).

Morally I see no problem with lying to the police, who are free to lie to you.
That's cool. It's still a crime though.

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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Aresen » 15 Nov 2017, 19:29

dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:23
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:16
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.
I need a further explainer on that (I don't know what constitutes obstruction of justice or whether that should be a crime too).

Morally I see no problem with lying to the police, who are free to lie to you.
I feel the same, especially as there is a tendency on the part of the cops/FBI to treat even a minor misstatement as 'lying'.
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dbcooper
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by dbcooper » 15 Nov 2017, 19:32

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:27
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:23
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:16
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.
I need a further explainer on that (I don't know what constitutes obstruction of justice or whether that should be a crime too).

Morally I see no problem with lying to the police, who are free to lie to you.
That's cool. It's still a crime though.
I know, I just want to know the reasoning why.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Warren » 15 Nov 2017, 19:35

dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:32
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:27
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:23
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:16
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.
I need a further explainer on that (I don't know what constitutes obstruction of justice or whether that should be a crime too).

Morally I see no problem with lying to the police, who are free to lie to you.
That's cool. It's still a crime though.
I know, I just want to know the reasoning why.
Because FYTW
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Jennifer » 15 Nov 2017, 19:35

dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:32
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:27
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:23
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:16
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.
I need a further explainer on that (I don't know what constitutes obstruction of justice or whether that should be a crime too).

Morally I see no problem with lying to the police, who are free to lie to you.
That's cool. It's still a crime though.
I know, I just want to know the reasoning why.
I can definitely see the reasoning why, and even agree in the sense that "This is how things should be if we lived in the ideal Platonic world rather than the badly flawed one we have, and had an ideal platonic police force too": the idea is that honorable Thin Blue Line cops telling lies to (for example) bring down the Mafia and stop dangerous murderers is (for obvious reasons) more morally acceptable than telling lies so that murderers and Mafiosi can remain uncaught.
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Jennifer » 15 Nov 2017, 19:37

Of course, that's quite different fro the real world wherein I personally have not the slightest moral qualm about, say, lying to police about whether I've noticed any underage kids drinking, or know anyone in the neighborhood who smokes weed. Why no, Officer, I haven't noticed a thing.
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 Nov 2017, 19:38

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 17:27
Now, Dems appear to be willing to throw Bill under the bus.
No, there's a huge difference between people anonymously acknowledging, "Yeah, he probably did it." in a poll (or even a few writers giving excuse-laden condemnations) and throwing him under any kind of bus. Ot even something as minor and meaningless as pressuring him to make some sort of public apology.
Last edited by Eric the .5b on 15 Nov 2017, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 Nov 2017, 19:40

Jennifer wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:37
Of course, that's quite different fro the real world wherein I personally have not the slightest moral qualm about, say, lying to police about whether I've noticed any underage kids drinking, or know anyone in the neighborhood who smokes weed. Why no, Officer, I haven't noticed a thing.
Well, the real difference is that the FBI are really big on trying to catch people doing anything that might possibly be lying to them and encouraging its prosecution. Never talk to the FBI without a lawyer.
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 15 Nov 2017, 19:43

dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:32
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:27
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:23
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:16
dbcooper wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:13
BTW, how is lying to the FBI a crime?
Depending on the context, obstruction of justice.
I need a further explainer on that (I don't know what constitutes obstruction of justice or whether that should be a crime too).

Morally I see no problem with lying to the police, who are free to lie to you.
That's cool. It's still a crime though.
I know, I just want to know the reasoning why.
In the archetypical case by lying you are misdirecting the police who are investigating a crime, which will waste money and time as well as potentially harming or inconveniencing others.

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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by the innominate one » 15 Nov 2017, 19:47

We all might be better off if every time the police asked a question, no matter how seemingly innocuous, we decline to answer on the advice of our lawyers.
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by dbcooper » 15 Nov 2017, 19:51

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:43
In the archetypical case by lying you are misdirecting the police who are investigating a crime, which will waste money and time as well as potentially harming or inconveniencing others.
Thank you.

Now who remembers this goofy fellow?

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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 Nov 2017, 20:00

Anecdotally, I broached the subject with some Blues in a celebrity-accusations thread. A couple have granted that yeah, Clinton got a free pass he shouldn't have and shouldn't get, now. Everyone else went "But Republicans!" or "but perjury isn't a high crime" or just STFO.

(And I didn't invoke the impeachment, just the accusations of sexual harassment and sexual assault. The defenses just *cough*fled*cough*, I mean, drifted over to that safe territory.)
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by the innominate one » 15 Nov 2017, 20:04

A not so honorable representative from Florida. I had to use image search. Hastert insisted he resign, ironically. But there was physical evidence, not just testimony from alleged victims. Also, it wasn't a long ago event.
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Painboy » 15 Nov 2017, 20:36

Eric the .5b wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:38
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 17:27
Now, Dems appear to be willing to throw Bill under the bus.
No, there's a huge difference between people anonymously acknowledging, "Yeah, he probably did it." in a poll (or even a few writers giving excuse-laden condemnations) and throwing him under any kind of bus. Ot even something as minor and meaningless as pressuring him to make some sort of public apology.
Exactly. I doubt also if he was the sitting president that they would be so open about condemning him. There's no real political stakes in saying these things.

Roy Moore is being defended because the alternative virtually guarantees a Democrat in that seat. If Roy was just in a lead up to the primary or even a sitting Senator with a solid majority for his party in the Senate, you would see very little defense of him and you might have the party quietly tell him behind the scenes to give up his position so they can appoint a replacement. Right now it's too much of a political risk to dump him.

Just look at what happened with Jack Ryan when his and Jeri Ryan's custody papers got released. He pulled out of what was a tightly contested race and the Republicans lost any chance to get that seat.

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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 Nov 2017, 20:42

Painboy wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 20:36
Eric the .5b wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 19:38
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 17:27
Now, Dems appear to be willing to throw Bill under the bus.
No, there's a huge difference between people anonymously acknowledging, "Yeah, he probably did it." in a poll (or even a few writers giving excuse-laden condemnations) and throwing him under any kind of bus. Ot even something as minor and meaningless as pressuring him to make some sort of public apology.
Exactly. I doubt also if he was the sitting president that they would be so open about condemning him. There's no real political stakes in saying these things.
Hell, I doubt the people willing to publically say it would be as willing to do so if they hadn't just had a two-term Democratic president who either kept it in his pants or had the requisite discretion not to get caught.

But even with the Clintons being as end-of-life as Windows 98, Bill still matters to the Democrats.
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by the innominate one » 15 Nov 2017, 21:19

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by thoreau » 17 Jan 2018, 00:00

Today is the 20th anniversary of the Lewinsky scandal.

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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Sandy » 17 Jan 2018, 04:50

I see she’s going the Chelsea Manning route on Twitter, but she has much to learn to get on Chelsea’s level.
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by dhex » 17 Jan 2018, 11:54

Sandy wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 04:50
I see she’s going the Chelsea Manning route on Twitter, but she has much to learn to get on Chelsea’s level.
moar angel dust
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by Andrew » 17 Jan 2018, 12:59

dhex wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 11:54
Sandy wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 04:50
I see she’s going the Chelsea Manning route on Twitter, but she has much to learn to get on Chelsea’s level.
moar angel dust
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Re: Bill Clinton, #MeToo, Feminism, and 1998

Post by dhex » 17 Jan 2018, 15:01

the culture is so far ahead of me on that. they're synthesizing new analogues to 5-meo-dmt and i'm all like oh i want a medical weed card. the culture is like we can't hear you over the self transforming reality tv show elves you fucking normie.
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