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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 03 Feb 2018, 10:38
by the innominate one
Jadagul wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 03:17
the innominate one wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 02:38
Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
You can't actually really blame him for that. The deal is that one Republican and one Democrat on the committee get to actually see all the underlying intel. (Also one staffer for each of them, and same on the Senate side---this is what they call the "Gang of Eight"). For whatever reason, the Republican they've authorized for that is Gowdry, not Nunez. So he's actually not allowed to see the intel.
*Gowdy

If he hasn't seen the actual intelligence, then why is he writing a memo and calling it a big deal? Yes, that's rhetorical. I know it's public relations/spin.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 03 Feb 2018, 20:42
by Mo
If Nunes was smart, or even had above average intelligence, he would have withheld the memo, claim it was too hot for the FBI and let the legend build. The real thing is lame AF.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 03 Feb 2018, 21:06
by Highway
Mo wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 20:42
If Nunes was smart, or even had above average intelligence, he would have withheld the memo, claim it was too hot for the FBI and let the legend build. The real thing is lame AF.
Nunes really does seem like he takes the short bus to work...

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 03 Feb 2018, 21:14
by Mo
The memo was the Snakes on a Plane of government misdeed memos.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 03 Feb 2018, 22:46
by Shem
Jadagul wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 03:17
the innominate one wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 02:38
Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
You can't actually really blame him for that. The deal is that one Republican and one Democrat on the committee get to actually see all the underlying intel. (Also one staffer for each of them, and same on the Senate side---this is what they call the "Gang of Eight"). For whatever reason, the Republican they've authorized for that is Gowdry, not Nunez. So he's actually not allowed to see the intel.
He can't see the intel because he "recused" himself from the Russia investigation, turning it over to Gowdy because he helped to campaign for Trump. Which is why the memo is even bigger bullshit, and why I absolutely can blame him.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 04 Feb 2018, 00:01
by Jadagul
Shem wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 22:46
Jadagul wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 03:17
the innominate one wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 02:38
Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
You can't actually really blame him for that. The deal is that one Republican and one Democrat on the committee get to actually see all the underlying intel. (Also one staffer for each of them, and same on the Senate side---this is what they call the "Gang of Eight"). For whatever reason, the Republican they've authorized for that is Gowdry, not Nunez. So he's actually not allowed to see the intel.
He can't see the intel because he "recused" himself from the Russia investigation, turning it over to Gowdy because he helped to campaign for Trump. Which is why the memo is even bigger bullshit, and why I absolutely can blame him.
Sorry, I was unclear.

The memo is utter bullshit, and you can 100% blame him for that.

You can maybe blame him for trying to push the memo when he hadn't read the underlying intelligence, purely because he hadn't read the underlying intelligence. But presumably someone has read the intelligence (apparently it's Kash Patel), and it's perfectly reasonable to say "whoah, this intelligence summary looks really bad, we need to tell people".

What you can't blame him for is the fact that he hasn't read the intelligence. Like, if you're asking "why the fuck has this guy not done his job and read the intel?" then there's a very good reason for that.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 04 Feb 2018, 00:12
by thoreau
Meanwhile, Carter Page was deemed "an idiot" by Russian spies, but possibly a useful one:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/04/04/rus ... idiot/amp/

In 2013 he was bragging about his Kremlin ties:

http://time.com/5132126/carter-page-russia-2013-letter/

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 13 Feb 2018, 18:05
by lunchstealer
Popehat lawsplains regarding FruitOfThePoisonedTreeGate:

https://www.popehat.com/2018/02/12/laws ... stigation/

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 10:49
by JasonL
I thought that was quite useful. I have a friend who is relatively close to warrants in non FISA environments who was pretty insistent this was something that'd get a prosecutor actually arrested. Now, I suspect that view was formed by taking Nunez at face value, (i.e. there was no disclosure at all of political nature of a piece of data). He was hoping for a full review of FISA stuff precisely because it looks like abuse of the process for explicitly political outcomes. I just don't think that's a plausible scenario.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 14:15
by Shem
Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces

Mueller alleged that Russian operatives “communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign”, but the indictment did not address the question of whether anyone else in Trump’s team had knowingly colluded.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 14:36
by Highway
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 14:15
Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces

Mueller alleged that Russian operatives “communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign”, but the indictment did not address the question of whether anyone else in Trump’s team had knowingly colluded.
I'm waiting for the Trump tweet of "See, there's no collusion! We're just dupes!"

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 15:08
by thoreau
AURE ENTULUVA!!!!

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 15:41
by Mo
With the news that the Russians went after Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, I can expect both of them to endorse the Russians for president. But don't worry, Rubio will subtweet them with Bible verses.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 17:00
by thoreau
Meanwhile, another Trump campaign official is close to a plea deal:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics ... index.html

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 17:18
by thoreau
So, let's assume the most charitable possible scenario: The people at the top of the Trump camp were dupes, played by the Russians. Their worst crimes involve shady real estate deals, not knowing collusion with a foreign intelligence service. Yes, Russia managed to insert guys like Manafort into Trump's circle, but the Don and his sons were innocent dupes. We're still left with a President who is both so incompetent and so crooked (vis-a-vis his willingness to do business with Russian gangsters) that the Russian government was able to insert all sorts of people around him, and manipulate his campaign.

How does Congress not impeach? A man that compromised can't run the government, unless he essentially agrees to be ceremonial head of state while Mike Pence is effectively PM.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 19:30
by Jennifer
thoreau wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 17:18
How does Congress not impeach? A man that compromised can't run the government, unless he essentially agrees to be ceremonial head of state while Mike Pence is effectively PM.
Typical liberal propaganda topped by an unhealthy dollop of wishful thinking. The whole system is corrupt and there's no reason to think the Democrats are any better than the Republicans. Besides, Hillary would've been just as bad, if not worse. Give your incoherent Democrat-love a rest. The only reason HIllary hasn't already been arrested and charged with treason over Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation uranium payoffs is the corruption of the ....... [ad infinitum]

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 16 Feb 2018, 19:44
by Highway
Plus "We knew Trump wasn't perfect, but he's pushing our agenda, and that's more important than things like personal character or being blackmailable or being public with his thoughts about women and minorities (when we're a lot more careful to be quiet about them)."

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 00:10
by Jennifer
Wow. There really isn't a limit to how low he'll sink, is there?


Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 00:16
by Jennifer
Holy shit. I saw this earlier but thought it was from the Onion's cartoonist. But no; it's Ben Garrison. This is what Trumpsters actually believe.


Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 08:30
by dhex
i know there are dead kids but hahahahahah ahahah ahahahah oh god that's amazing.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 08:34
by nicole
Trumpkins are the best people

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 12:40
by dhex
anytime i see more than three hashtags i know i'm in for something special. sometimes it's whimsically stupid special and sometime's its bite down on the leather bit special.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 14:09
by Painboy
I'm all for artistic expression but I'm not going make much of a fuss if all editorial cartoonists get rounded up and put in camps.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 15:33
by Sandy
I can never tell if Ben Garrison is serious or if he’s seeing how long he can post Onion cartoons and Trumpkins won’t get the joke.

Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Posted: 18 Feb 2018, 21:10
by thoreau
Another person from the Trump campaign is about to plead guilty and testify against Manafort:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html

I wonder if that's part of why Trump was so grumpy on Twitter this weekend.