Occam, Trump, and Russia

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Aresen
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Aresen » 31 Jul 2019, 10:42

Kolohe wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 06:49
Mo wrote:
30 Jul 2019, 11:33
Painboy wrote:
29 Jul 2019, 19:30
thoreau wrote:
28 Jul 2019, 01:39
Kolohe wrote:
27 Jul 2019, 21:32
Cocaine Mitch isn't a Russian stooge. He just doesn't really care about democracy, and that attitude helps get Republicans elected, on the margin.
Agreed. Mitch simply knows what will benefit him and what won't. If Putin came to collect on the favor, he'd find Mitch damn near impossible to negotiate with. But in the meantime, Mitch is happy to turn a blind eye...not because he's actually Mikhail Mikhailovich McConnell, but because he's amoral and knows that a win is a win and long-term damage to the national good is irrelevant to his concerns.
It's almost like he's a politician or something.
A dark part of me would thoroughly enjoy if his opponent in 2020 started hammering him with a dark xenophobic campaign hitting him for his shady Russian aluminum connections and his wife's shady China stuff.

The problem with the Dems leaning into Xenophobia is that their hearts are just not in it. (And I'm not really kidding about that)
Hmm. Blues tend to be into 'white man's burden', even if the dress it up a lot and don't use that particular phrase any more. IMHO, international paternalism is a species of xenophobia.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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JasonL
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JasonL » 31 Jul 2019, 11:20

The problem being presented is the teams are fighting over a xenophobic demographic at the moment.

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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 31 Jul 2019, 14:33

JasonL wrote:The problem being presented is the teams are fighting over a xenophobic demographic at the moment.
This would be a quality parody of both-sidesism
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Shem
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Shem » 31 Jul 2019, 15:24

Mo wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 14:33
JasonL wrote:The problem being presented is the teams are fighting over a xenophobic demographic at the moment.
This would be a quality parody of both-sidesism
Especially just days after the tape of Reagan calling Africans monkeys was released.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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JasonL
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JasonL » 31 Jul 2019, 15:48

Sorry the Midwest rust factory terk er jerbs contingent is an important target for both parties.

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Shem
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Shem » 31 Jul 2019, 16:02

JasonL wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 15:48
Sorry the Midwest rust factory terk er jerbs contingent is an important target for both parties.
That's not what I'm talking about. It's the unspoken implication that "none of these politicians actually believe this stuff, it's just a put-on for votes" even though one of the major parties has spent decades hiding, excusing, and (when they think they can get away with it) engaging in racist behavior. Is there any point where this bigotry is what they actually believe, or is it cynicism all the way down for you?
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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JasonL
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JasonL » 31 Jul 2019, 16:36

Almost cynicism all the way down when dealing with politicians. VEEP is the closest-to-my-view depiction of politics in general.

Not quite all the way down though - I think they believe a thing or two that puts the flavor on their political expressions. I also think at some point they become swallowed by the narrative of their tribe. That is, a right leaning person may have one or two things they think are important when they start out - maybe death of families or maybe government busybodies or guns. So that small set of issues dictates the flavor they choose when they enter the arena. Over time, they probably justify all manner of crappy things to stay in power so in the long run they can be around to Make a Difference When it Counts. But that single moment never comes and they wake up one day and simply choose to believe that their tribe embodies the things they started out wanting to do and all deviation is explainable as political calculation. The narrative helps them "we are the 'leave people alone coaliltion of freedom loving gun owners and low tax people!!!!" They just ... believe it. The ones who don't believe it wash out because they can't keep spinning within narrative.

So, I'm not super interested in delving into the souls of the people if doing so requires me to look past what they actually do. I can't disentangle what they really really think from what they position for advantage from lies to others vs lies to themselves.

What I know is in the current moment there will be a requirement to "get under control" the harmful immigrants if you want Bob McRustbelt to be part of your coalition, and in the current moment I think most people believe that group can turn the election.

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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 31 Jul 2019, 16:47

There’s a major qualitative difference between appealing to racists by turning into Orange Wallace vs. strategically thinking let’s not be super woke.

And yes, Bernie has been anti-immigrant for a long time, but he’s not a democrat and has been bleeding support since the campaign began.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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