Occam, Trump, and Russia

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the innominate one
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by the innominate one » 01 Feb 2018, 22:19

You could argue he was "fired" from the position he held and the responsibilities he had while continuing to be employed by the FBI. I believe I've seen this usage in military contexts. Obama relieved a general of his position overseeing a particular set of duties, some represented it as being "fired" but he was still a general and still in the military.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

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Shem
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Shem » 01 Feb 2018, 23:00

thoreau wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 20:15
I mean, if he had a month of vacation days before his retirement date, why was the original plan to stick around for a month rather than say "Yeah, I'm wrapping up work by late January and then taking a vacation"
In government, you don't lose your vacation time if you leave. It cashes out. Meaning you can get paid for a month, and then pick up a nice check at the end. If it doesn't happen that way, either someone is low-key burning off their sick time (which doesn't cash out, usually) and playing it off like vacation, or they're really desperate to get out.

Interesting story, in a lot of states (Washington among them), it is not possible to retire on terminal leave. We have to report back for at least two weeks before we can begin retirement. If we don't, it's not considered retirement, and you can't put a portion of your sick time into an HCA. I guess when you print your own money, there's not as much incentive to hassle your employees.
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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 02 Feb 2018, 02:57

If you have sex with someone in the butt, how are they going to poop?

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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the innominate one
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by the innominate one » 02 Feb 2018, 09:09

I find it hard to believe the Fox people are that stupid, rather, their viewers are that stupid, and they know it. Where do children who wet the bed sleep?
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

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Sandy
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Sandy » 02 Feb 2018, 09:35

the innominate one wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 09:09
I find it hard to believe the Fox people are that stupid, rather, their viewers are that stupid, and they know it. Where do children who wet the bed sleep?
In the tub, duh. Much easier to clean.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 02 Feb 2018, 10:56

the innominate one wrote:I find it hard to believe the Fox people are that stupid, rather, their viewers are that stupid, and they know it. Where do children who wet the bed sleep?
I don’t find it hard to believe that Watters is that stupid.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Shem
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Shem » 02 Feb 2018, 13:17

3 Russian spy chiefs visited the US days before Trump decided against new sanctions on Russia

Perfectly normal, perfectly all right. Totally nothing funny here.
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thoreau
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 02 Feb 2018, 13:21

Shem wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 13:17
3 Russian spy chiefs visited the US days before Trump decided against new sanctions on Russia

Perfectly normal, perfectly all right. Totally nothing funny here.
Khorosho! You are learning!
"Camacho would be better than Trump. He actually has goodwill towards the world, and he actually did seek out the assistance of the smartest man in the world."
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jasper » 02 Feb 2018, 13:32

Sandy wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 09:35
the innominate one wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 09:09
I find it hard to believe the Fox people are that stupid, rather, their viewers are that stupid, and they know it. Where do children who wet the bed sleep?
In the tub, duh. Much easier to clean.
It puts the pee pee on its skin and so it gets the hose again.
"i'd like to move toward not combusting except on special occasions like arbor day." - dhex

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the innominate one
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by the innominate one » 02 Feb 2018, 13:34

Shem wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 13:17
3 Russian spy chiefs visited the US days before Trump decided against new sanctions on Russia

Perfectly normal, perfectly all right. Totally nothing funny here.
Just another random coincidence that means nothing. Less than nothing.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 02 Feb 2018, 14:15

So, Fox News hosts are lying, dumb, and out of touch? Consider me shocked.

". . . even the federalist folk are probably a bit wary, and they're essentially cosplaying the preacher from footloose." - dhex

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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 02 Feb 2018, 19:37

The Nunes Memo is bigger than Watergate? FFS, I bet worse happens every month with Jamal Blows that the FBI entraps. Though now the line on the right is about overclassification.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Jadagul
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jadagul » 02 Feb 2018, 19:58

Julian Sanchez's line is great. "I'm frustrated because finally we're getting public attention on FISA abuses, and the claims are so dumb that I actually have to side with the FISA courts on this one."

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JasonL
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JasonL » 02 Feb 2018, 20:33

It seems out of bounds to exclude the info from the submission for warrant tho. That would be prosecutable exclusion in a regular warrant.

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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 02 Feb 2018, 20:33

Who wished, “I want Republicans to care about FISA abuse” on the monkeys paw?
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JasonL » 02 Feb 2018, 20:37

Pulling back regardless of who cares about it conveniently, I don’t mind the focus on how shady the whole thing is.

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Mo
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Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 02 Feb 2018, 20:53

Except Carter Page seems like a completely legit target and therefore discredits people that normally care about this. And they don’t actually care.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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JasonL
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JasonL » 02 Feb 2018, 21:17

But is there, similar to the concerns that create the fruit from a poisoned tree concept a core principle that has been violated here. If the fisa warrant were issued to a rando not the prez, would we be bothered a bit by the terms under which it was granted?

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the innominate one
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by the innominate one » 02 Feb 2018, 21:19

Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 20:53
Except Carter Page seems like a completely legit target and therefore discredits people that normally care about this. And they don’t actually care.
From what I've read he was under investigation long before the Steele dossier was a thing. Yeah, the FBI should tell the FISC their sources, but I bet they never do, they just say "national security". Trump and the GOP only care now because they have something to hide. But if you've done nothing wrong...
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

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Jadagul
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jadagul » 02 Feb 2018, 21:24

The analysis seems to be that (1) the Steele dossier was only one of several reasons given, (2) it's totally fine if the information was verified in other ways, and (3) it looks like they actually did mention in the FISA submission that it was opposition research, just not specifically who funded it.

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MJGreen
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by MJGreen » 02 Feb 2018, 21:59

I feel Sanchez, but boost the cynicism. Maybe they did surveil Page under faulty pretenses - that's not been firmly established, but it wouldn't be surprising - but what does that ultimately mean to me? It was wrong to do that, but the controversy will not be productive. This is a purely partisan spat that will have purely partisan solutions. There is no newly found motivation to rein in FISC; they made that clear just a few weeks ago! The people outraged just want to see their political enemies punished, and that is the only concrete outcome we will see in a worst case scenario. It's not as if Donald-fucking-Trump will not politicize "The Trump Justice Department" as he's reportedly called it, or Kamala Harris won't exploit the DOJ, or the FBI will stop abusing its authority to further its own interests and politics.

Maybe the FBI and Obama DOJ is even worse than I thought, and they did a bad bad thing, but 12 months from now I don't see any positive developments, so I can't muster strong feelings one way or the other. On the other hand, naked partisanship and deception do annoy me, especially by those aligned with the people in power, so I find my ire directed at what may be the harmed party. Because they suuuck.

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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 02 Feb 2018, 22:56

Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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the innominate one
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by the innominate one » 03 Feb 2018, 02:38

Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

"No shit, Sherlock." -JsubD

"now is the time to go fuck yourself until you die." -dhex

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Jadagul
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jadagul » 03 Feb 2018, 03:17

the innominate one wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 02:38
Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
You can't actually really blame him for that. The deal is that one Republican and one Democrat on the committee get to actually see all the underlying intel. (Also one staffer for each of them, and same on the Senate side---this is what they call the "Gang of Eight"). For whatever reason, the Republican they've authorized for that is Gowdry, not Nunez. So he's actually not allowed to see the intel.

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nicole
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by nicole » 03 Feb 2018, 08:13

MJGreen wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 21:59
I feel Sanchez, but boost the cynicism. Maybe they did surveil Page under faulty pretenses - that's not been firmly established, but it wouldn't be surprising - but what does that ultimately mean to me? It was wrong to do that, but the controversy will not be productive. This is a purely partisan spat that will have purely partisan solutions. There is no newly found motivation to rein in FISC; they made that clear just a few weeks ago! The people outraged just want to see their political enemies punished, and that is the only concrete outcome we will see in a worst case scenario. It's not as if Donald-fucking-Trump will not politicize "The Trump Justice Department" as he's reportedly called it, or Kamala Harris won't exploit the DOJ, or the FBI will stop abusing its authority to further its own interests and politics.

Maybe the FBI and Obama DOJ is even worse than I thought, and they did a bad bad thing, but 12 months from now I don't see any positive developments, so I can't muster strong feelings one way or the other. On the other hand, naked partisanship and deception do annoy me, especially by those aligned with the people in power, so I find my ire directed at what may be the harmed party. Because they suuuck.
Team MJG.

Fuck all of these guys in the ass for just having voted for this. As far as I’m concerned every one of them should be wiretapped and have their bowel movements broadcast on television and maybe then I’ll feel bad that their civil liberties are being abused. Although probably not because they’ll probably still be fighting the drug war with confidential informants whose compromised status isn’t disclosed on warrant applications.
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