Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Andrew
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Andrew »

Jadagul wrote:
18 Sep 2019, 17:45
Warren wrote:
18 Sep 2019, 10:32
How many "red metros" with populations of say 500k+ are there?
Red versus blue tracks population density pretty closely. So on some level there aren't really any red metros.

Red states are states where the metro areas are overwhelmed by the low-population areas.
Phoenix has a Team Blue mayor and tends Dem in national elections, but the overall Phoenix metro is overwhelmingly Red.
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Number 6
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Andrew wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 11:40
Jadagul wrote:
18 Sep 2019, 17:45
Warren wrote:
18 Sep 2019, 10:32
How many "red metros" with populations of say 500k+ are there?
Red versus blue tracks population density pretty closely. So on some level there aren't really any red metros.

Red states are states where the metro areas are overwhelmed by the low-population areas.
Phoenix has a Team Blue mayor and tends Dem in national elections, but the overall Phoenix metro is overwhelmingly Red.
This. Kansas City proper (or Kansas Cities) is deep blue, but KC itself is a small part of the metro area. The overall metro is rather red, although not nearly as red as the less civilized parts of the state.*

*Essentially not-KC-or-St. Louis.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Hm, okay, I decided to look up some actual numbers. Citylab has a really nice map/interactive for 2016 here. It looks like the Phoenix metro area was in fact slightly red, as was Kansas City; this surprises me. There are even a couple of genuinely red metros---Birmingham and Oklahoma City are each over a million people---but it's not common.

(I wanted to find something like that for 2018 but I failed.)

Part of this is that the metro area includes suburbs but also exurbs. The low-density outlying parts of the metro area are still part of the metro area, and vote Republican; the higher-density bits towards the center vote Democratic. But I was totally wrong earlier when I thought that the non-metro areas were most of the low-density bits; there's lots of low-density outlying exurban areas that are inside metros.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Cincinnati metro is bigger than you think and red. Catholic.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Young People Are Going to Save Us All From Office Life
Flexibility no longer means what it did to older generations — the ability to work from home when a plumber is coming or a child is sick. But it’s also not about 21st-century perks like free meals, on-site dry cleaning and Wi-Fi-equipped shuttles that help keep people at work longer.

Instead, it’s about employees shaping their jobs in ways that fit with their daily lives. That could mean working remotely or shifting hours when needed. More companies are offering sabbaticals; free plane tickets for vacations; meditation rooms; exercise or therapy breaks; paid time off to volunteer; and extended paid family leave.
“When younger workers talk about balance, what they are saying is, ‘I will work hard for you, but I also need a life,’” said Cali Williams Yost, the chief executive and founder of Flex Strategy Group, which helps organizations build flexible work cultures. “Unfortunately, what leaders hear is, ‘I want to work less.’”
A survey by Werk, which helps companies add flexibility strategies, found that older employees are just as likely as younger people to want flexibility. They’re less likely to have it, though, because they’re less likely to ask for it. Sometimes, tensions flare between young people who demand a life outside work and deskbound older workers.

“As boomers age, they too are looking for more workplace flexibility, but they seem to begrudge giving the same to younger workers when they didn’t have it themselves at their ages and life stage,” said Pamela Stone, a sociologist at Hunter College.
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JasonL
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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The resentment sometimes flares because only some types of work are amenable to “whenever I feel like it” hours and the inflexible work hours staff eat shit because you abandoned your client.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Are there any well-known examples of a socialist corporation set up that way from the get-go, meaning all the employees own shares of all the equipment and partake, more-equally, of all the income assigned to compensation?

ETA - Never mind. I found this. It's a beginning. (Publix... whattayaknow...)

https://www.nceo.org/articles/employee-ownership-100
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Yeah, there's all this work flexibility for folks like that... As long as they've got their phone and laptop and are on call to answer questions 24/7 because the company expects that in return for the supposed flexibility.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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One firm has an employee who works mostly from places like Hawaii and Costa Rica. At another, someone worked remotely while living out of a van for three months, skiing in the mornings and working in the afternoons. One person goes to the office at midnight so he can surf in the morning, and another takes Fridays off to backpack.

“They’re maybe not on the partner track, but they’re not being penalized,” said Abby Engers, a strategist at Boly:Welch, an employment search firm in Portland, Ore. “People are burnt out. They’re making a commitment to themselves to take time off. If they see you’re doing the work and doing it well, it doesn’t matter if you’re doing it at 10 p.m. or 10 a.m.”
“When I’m on vacation, if my Slack pings on my phone, I’ll probably answer it, so maybe I work more,” she said. Yet she is happy to answer messages when traveling, she said, because it’s on her terms. “I would never answer emails at my old job on vacation.”
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Highway wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 12:50
Yeah, there's all this work flexibility for folks like that... As long as they've got their phone and laptop and are on call to answer questions 24/7 because the company expects that in return for the supposed flexibility.
This. One of the best things about 9:00 - 5:00 was 5:01.
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Highway
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Highway »

Aresen wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 15:15
Highway wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 12:50
Yeah, there's all this work flexibility for folks like that... As long as they've got their phone and laptop and are on call to answer questions 24/7 because the company expects that in return for the supposed flexibility.
This. One of the best things about 9:00 - 5:00 was 5:01.
Exactly. And I see these same people who are pushing for 'flexibility' then ending up whinging about how they never have time and are always attached to their phones and work expects them to drop everything whenever someone calls. But I see them as directly related. The Man's gonna get his, and he's gonna get it from you if you don't jealously guard all of yours.

Now, maybe the push for flexibility is a reaction to the jobs that have been encroaching on personal time. But I think the better push would be for clear separation between work time and the rest of your time. And pushing against the bullshit idea that if you're not willing to work for free to pump up the company, you're not doing your part. Or that if you're not willing to devote your life to the company then you're not really 'invested'. That's crap. I mean, it's become pretty darn clear that the reason for all those Silicon Valley gaudy perks is to keep you at the job, and on the job while off the clock. So let's get rid of that, and get some more "me time".
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Hugh Akston »

FWIW the people I know who work remotely post their available hours in Slack and on the shared calendar.

Edit - Also it goes without saying that they consistently turn their work in on time. Otherwise they wouldn’t be working there long.

Whatever ill effects they may be suffering from missing out on bullshit office gatherings, sliding down the brontosaurus tail after the whistle blows, and an unpaid hour long commute home is hard to detect through email/chat/conference calls. I’m sure they are soul-sick about it though.
Last edited by Hugh Akston on 20 Sep 2019, 17:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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A norm of "we need your number off hours but we will not use it unless its really important" plus "the presumption is you have an office job but regular life things like having to be there when the delivery guy shows up is perfectly fine and you can also do what you want one day a week" is a good model. I don't mind being callable for heavy shit but I don't like the presumption that I'm always on. Our culture does a good job with that.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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I suppose it's a sign on my increasing age that I tend to view talk about work/life balance as the noise produced by whiny children.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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I am (obviously) pro-flexible-work, and it's worked well for me and I don't think it has led to bad quality of life in terms of too much contact outside office hours, although I do also have a sometimes-high-ish-pressure job where I work long hours/weekends/travel. And I definitely think it works better for my productivity than being in an office.

I also feel like this "flexible" situation isn't *that* different in many ways from more traditional office life. A typical day for me is, I get up around 5, head out to run around 5:30, sit down to work around 7 for about an hour and then take the dogs out for a longer walk around 8 (which is when my office is opening up in NY), then have breakfast, and then from 9 or 9:30 or so I'm at my desk for the rest of the day, with lots of trips out into the back yard and to change the laundry and stuff like that. And I don't see what's different about not being able to reach me because I'm walking the dogs, or out for a run, than not being able to reach me because I'm in a meeting with someone (which is a lot of the rest of my day). And of course, I am reachable-in-emergencies in all those circumstances. I get messages on my runs and can see and decide whether to respond, and because I work closely with another woman who is an early-morning person, and who tries to spend more of the afternoon with her first grader, I sometimes talk to her at like 7am.

tl;dr I am about to work most of the weekend and travel for work Monday through Thursday but I get to spend a ton of time with my dogs and/or at the beach.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Hugh Akston »

So wait nicole who does all your work for you while you’re out being a millennial dog mom?
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Number 6 wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 17:28
I suppose it's a sign on my increasing age that I tend to view talk about work/life balance as the noise produced by whiny children.
You say that, but I've got all the flexibility to work from home and stuff but I've sat down and worked for two hours at 11PM and worked 16 hour days and worked more than one 30-hours-with-a-nap and get IMs from my boss pretty at 9 and 10pm and occasionally phone calls.

If this job weren't basically paying me above normal market value and doing significant profit sharing, I'd be looking for any 9-5-and-out job that paid 60% of my current salary.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Jasper wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 12:42
Are there any well-known examples of a socialist corporation set up that way from the get-go, meaning all the employees own shares of all the equipment and partake, more-equally, of all the income assigned to compensation?

ETA - Never mind. I found this. It's a beginning. (Publix... whattayaknow...)

https://www.nceo.org/articles/employee-ownership-100
Mondragon of Spain, I think:
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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There are democratically-run co-ops all over the place. They never get very big, though. That's all "socialist" with even bigger scare quotes than normal, though. They actually have to succeed in the market and they have no gulags.
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Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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JD wrote:
Jasper wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 12:42
Are there any well-known examples of a socialist corporation set up that way from the get-go, meaning all the employees own shares of all the equipment and partake, more-equally, of all the income assigned to compensation?

ETA - Never mind. I found this. It's a beginning. (Publix... whattayaknow...)

https://www.nceo.org/articles/employee-ownership-100
Mondragon of Spain, I think:
I’ve always found the worker owned capital model of socialism bizarre. It’s identical to just regular capitalism if those workers invested in and are carrying the risk of capital. The only requirement of capitalism is that those who own the capital make decisions about what to do with it. If that’s a bunch of grocery baggers who cares.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Jadagul wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 19:04
Hm, okay, I decided to look up some actual numbers. Citylab has a really nice map/interactive for 2016 here. It looks like the Phoenix metro area was in fact slightly red, as was Kansas City; this surprises me. There are even a couple of genuinely red metros---Birmingham and Oklahoma City are each over a million people---but it's not common.

(I wanted to find something like that for 2018 but I failed.)

Part of this is that the metro area includes suburbs but also exurbs. The low-density outlying parts of the metro area are still part of the metro area, and vote Republican; the higher-density bits towards the center vote Democratic. But I was totally wrong earlier when I thought that the non-metro areas were most of the low-density bits; there's lots of low-density outlying exurban areas that are inside metros.
You need the urbanized area measurement instead of the MSA. NY's MSA includes Pike County PA, which is decidedly not urban.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Mo wrote:
25 Sep 2019, 05:26
Jadagul wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 19:04
Hm, okay, I decided to look up some actual numbers. Citylab has a really nice map/interactive for 2016 here. It looks like the Phoenix metro area was in fact slightly red, as was Kansas City; this surprises me. There are even a couple of genuinely red metros---Birmingham and Oklahoma City are each over a million people---but it's not common.

(I wanted to find something like that for 2018 but I failed.)

Part of this is that the metro area includes suburbs but also exurbs. The low-density outlying parts of the metro area are still part of the metro area, and vote Republican; the higher-density bits towards the center vote Democratic. But I was totally wrong earlier when I thought that the non-metro areas were most of the low-density bits; there's lots of low-density outlying exurban areas that are inside metros.
You need the urbanized area measurement instead of the MSA. NY's MSA includes Pike County PA, which is decidedly not urban.
Oh definitely. But the question as originally asked was about red metros, not red urbanized areas.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Warren »

Jadagul wrote:
25 Sep 2019, 06:02
Mo wrote:
25 Sep 2019, 05:26
Jadagul wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 19:04
Hm, okay, I decided to look up some actual numbers. Citylab has a really nice map/interactive for 2016 here. It looks like the Phoenix metro area was in fact slightly red, as was Kansas City; this surprises me. There are even a couple of genuinely red metros---Birmingham and Oklahoma City are each over a million people---but it's not common.

(I wanted to find something like that for 2018 but I failed.)

Part of this is that the metro area includes suburbs but also exurbs. The low-density outlying parts of the metro area are still part of the metro area, and vote Republican; the higher-density bits towards the center vote Democratic. But I was totally wrong earlier when I thought that the non-metro areas were most of the low-density bits; there's lots of low-density outlying exurban areas that are inside metros.
You need the urbanized area measurement instead of the MSA. NY's MSA includes Pike County PA, which is decidedly not urban.
Oh definitely. But the question as originally asked was about red metros, not red urbanized areas.
If you're lumping forested areas on the other side of the appalachians in with NYC, your definition of "metro" is too broad.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Mo »

Warren wrote:
25 Sep 2019, 09:20
Jadagul wrote:
25 Sep 2019, 06:02
Mo wrote:
25 Sep 2019, 05:26
Jadagul wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 19:04
Hm, okay, I decided to look up some actual numbers. Citylab has a really nice map/interactive for 2016 here. It looks like the Phoenix metro area was in fact slightly red, as was Kansas City; this surprises me. There are even a couple of genuinely red metros---Birmingham and Oklahoma City are each over a million people---but it's not common.

(I wanted to find something like that for 2018 but I failed.)

Part of this is that the metro area includes suburbs but also exurbs. The low-density outlying parts of the metro area are still part of the metro area, and vote Republican; the higher-density bits towards the center vote Democratic. But I was totally wrong earlier when I thought that the non-metro areas were most of the low-density bits; there's lots of low-density outlying exurban areas that are inside metros.
You need the urbanized area measurement instead of the MSA. NY's MSA includes Pike County PA, which is decidedly not urban.
Oh definitely. But the question as originally asked was about red metros, not red urbanized areas.
If you're lumping forested areas on the other side of the appalachians in with NYC, your definition of "metro" is too broad.
Not his definition.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Painboy »

I'd have to see more evidence to really come round to it but it's an interesting thought.

How single men and women are making politics more extreme
The more freedom we have, the more there will be very feminine and masculine subcultures too, and this might explain a great deal of recent political developments — in particular the campus identity politics movement and the alt-right. The former is heavily female, while the latter is overwhelmingly male — in fact, not just male, but populated by men who seem to have difficulties with women.

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