Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

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Warren
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Warren » 12 Jun 2017, 13:06

JasonL wrote: The one local bank that used to abuse you on fees and rates?
My local 100% employee owned bank pays me interest on checking.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by JasonL » 12 Jun 2017, 13:15

It can happen. In the context of competition to be sure.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Hugh Akston » 12 Jun 2017, 13:33

Highway wrote:So I get the idea that Gen X gets away without getting the 'blame' for these things because everyone expected them to go down due to lower population, and what's being lamented in these industry-serving articles is more that they're more upset that that things aren't going back up as population cohorts move into the target demographic for these things, and that's why they're blaming Millenials. But to me it's more that all these things have fallen out of favor in general, and are maybe being propped up by the Boomer's Last Vestiges rather than some clear "Everyone likes this except for Millenials" idea.
Yeah I mean the whole point of this thread is to mock the idea of age cohort as a meaningful divisor of people with a dizzying diversity of backgrounds, experiences, and opinions. I imagine there are a number of GenXers and Boomers who get that diamonds and homeownership are scams, and as those ideas disseminate they are starting to move the needle at a time when young people increasingly don't have the money to blow on bullshit.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Kolohe » 12 Jun 2017, 13:47

I had thought that Gen x gets married more - or maybe stays married more, but they (we) did it later than the boomers.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by nicole » 12 Jun 2017, 13:48

Hugh Akston wrote:
Highway wrote:So I get the idea that Gen X gets away without getting the 'blame' for these things because everyone expected them to go down due to lower population, and what's being lamented in these industry-serving articles is more that they're more upset that that things aren't going back up as population cohorts move into the target demographic for these things, and that's why they're blaming Millenials. But to me it's more that all these things have fallen out of favor in general, and are maybe being propped up by the Boomer's Last Vestiges rather than some clear "Everyone likes this except for Millenials" idea.
Yeah I mean the whole point of this thread is to mock the idea of age cohort as a meaningful divisor of people with a dizzying diversity of backgrounds, experiences, and opinions. I imagine there are a number of GenXers and Boomers who get that diamonds and homeownership are scams, and as those ideas disseminate they are starting to move the needle at a time when young people increasingly don't have the money to blow on bullshit.
Napkins are another favorite from the list for this reason. I had no idea I was starting a trend when I decided to spend less/carry fewer things home from the store than my mom did for seemingly no reason.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Jun 2017, 14:15

nicole wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:
Highway wrote:So I get the idea that Gen X gets away without getting the 'blame' for these things because everyone expected them to go down due to lower population, and what's being lamented in these industry-serving articles is more that they're more upset that that things aren't going back up as population cohorts move into the target demographic for these things, and that's why they're blaming Millenials. But to me it's more that all these things have fallen out of favor in general, and are maybe being propped up by the Boomer's Last Vestiges rather than some clear "Everyone likes this except for Millenials" idea.
Yeah I mean the whole point of this thread is to mock the idea of age cohort as a meaningful divisor of people with a dizzying diversity of backgrounds, experiences, and opinions. I imagine there are a number of GenXers and Boomers who get that diamonds and homeownership are scams, and as those ideas disseminate they are starting to move the needle at a time when young people increasingly don't have the money to blow on bullshit.
Napkins are another favorite from the list for this reason. I had no idea I was starting a trend when I decided to spend less/carry fewer things home from the store than my mom did for seemingly no reason.
Wait! Who's getting blamed for napkins?

Anyway, I suspect Boomers, themselves, started a trend toward marrying later, in this case later being defined as mid to late twenties. I will note for the sake of consistency that the "home ownership is a scam" claim is silly for upper middle class people settled in wherever they happen to live and dangerous for many others in that if you subtract the "enforced savings" component of mortgage payments for younger people, total savings rates will decline even further. Say what you will, they won't save / invest that money elsewhere; they'll spend it. We were well aware that diamonds were a scam in the 60s. That said, I bought my wife a nice engagement ring as a 20th anniversary present, as it seemed less risky by then.

If we're going to go down the "generational stereotypes are 99% bullshit road," a road I'm happy to travel down with the rest of you, let's also note that a very, very small part of my generation protested the war, dodged the draft, believed in (let alone practiced) free love, wore beads, tie-dye and flowers in our hair. Even among the privileged college attending segment of my generation, those were stereotypes based on small, vocal minorities.

Also, the economy sucked in 1973, the year I graduated college. Unemployment was high especially among young job seekers, no one knew if there would ever be cheap gasoline again, and there was talk of our generation never managing to attain the level of prosperity of our parents. The past is easily forgotten, especially by those who didn't live in it, and the future remains a mystery.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Mo » 12 Jun 2017, 15:30

dhex wrote:i mean yeah snake people are annoying and all that but i mean, fuck golf. what a stupid fucking game/networking/sexual harassment opportunity
This.

Also isn't the diamonds thing just because snake people are continuing the Gen X get married later trend? My crunchyish sister, who I thought may abstain from diamonds is now getting a diamond for her engagement.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by nicole » 12 Jun 2017, 15:34

I don't know. I definitely know a lot of snake people who have/will have diamonds. But also a lot who wouldn't touch one.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by tr0g » 12 Jun 2017, 16:03

Hi! We're square in the middle of Gen X here ('69 and '71). Most of this sounds like some of the Gen X stuff is becoming more commonplace. Aside from the relationship stuff (because a) we dated and b) we're married) and homeownership, we've been doing this stuff for a long time. Like, since before these whippersnappers were making their own spending decisions.

Society is finally catching up to me! As a side note, that should worry y'all.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Jennifer » 12 Jun 2017, 16:07

I thought t least part of the decline in diamonds was due not only to knowledge of the market's inherent scamminess, but more knowledge of "blood diamonds" and the truly evil things going on in much of the world diamond market.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Hugh Akston » 12 Jun 2017, 16:09

I can't speak for my generational cohort (whatever that is), but I wouldn't touch a diamond because they aren't worth near what they sell for at retail. DeBeers is a shitty cartel and you can get white sapphires (lab grown ones too, which are awesome) for a fraction of the price. The marginal Moh's value of diamonds vs sapphires isn't worth the 10x price increase.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by tr0g » 12 Jun 2017, 16:18

Hugh Akston wrote:I can't speak for my generational cohort (whatever that is), but I wouldn't touch a diamond because they aren't worth near what they sell for at retail. DeBeers is a shitty cartel and you can get white sapphires (lab grown ones too, which are awesome) for a fraction of the price. The marginal Moh's value of diamonds vs sapphires isn't worth the 10x price increase.
I buy the wife a lot of black spinel, because it's prettier than black diamonds and way cheaper.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by dbcooper » 12 Jun 2017, 16:27

Golf is a hell of a lot of fun to play.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by nicole » 12 Jun 2017, 16:37

Hugh Akston wrote:I can't speak for my generational cohort (whatever that is), but I wouldn't touch a diamond because they aren't worth near what they sell for at retail. DeBeers is a shitty cartel and you can get white sapphires (lab grown ones too, which are awesome) for a fraction of the price. The marginal Moh's value of diamonds vs sapphires isn't worth the 10x price increase.
No, but the sparkle is.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Jadagul » 12 Jun 2017, 17:55

nicole wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:I can't speak for my generational cohort (whatever that is), but I wouldn't touch a diamond because they aren't worth near what they sell for at retail. DeBeers is a shitty cartel and you can get white sapphires (lab grown ones too, which are awesome) for a fraction of the price. The marginal Moh's value of diamonds vs sapphires isn't worth the 10x price increase.
No, but the sparkle is.
Apparently there's a known and relatively cheap way of making imitation diamonds that are actually noticeably more sparkly than true diamonds.

But you can't get them any more because no one makes them because they're too obviously fake.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by tr0g » 12 Jun 2017, 20:07

Jadagul wrote:
nicole wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:I can't speak for my generational cohort (whatever that is), but I wouldn't touch a diamond because they aren't worth near what they sell for at retail. DeBeers is a shitty cartel and you can get white sapphires (lab grown ones too, which are awesome) for a fraction of the price. The marginal Moh's value of diamonds vs sapphires isn't worth the 10x price increase.
No, but the sparkle is.
Apparently there's a known and relatively cheap way of making imitation diamonds that are actually noticeably more sparkly than true diamonds.

But you can't get them any more because no one makes them because they're too obviously fake.
You're not shopping in the right places. It is still a thing, and still very much being sold. You can also get weird things like moissanite jewelry as well.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Aresen » 12 Jun 2017, 20:15

The market for Green should be booming. :P
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Jadagul » 12 Jun 2017, 23:26

tr0g wrote:
Jadagul wrote:
nicole wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:I can't speak for my generational cohort (whatever that is), but I wouldn't touch a diamond because they aren't worth near what they sell for at retail. DeBeers is a shitty cartel and you can get white sapphires (lab grown ones too, which are awesome) for a fraction of the price. The marginal Moh's value of diamonds vs sapphires isn't worth the 10x price increase.
No, but the sparkle is.
Apparently there's a known and relatively cheap way of making imitation diamonds that are actually noticeably more sparkly than true diamonds.

But you can't get them any more because no one makes them because they're too obviously fake.
You're not shopping in the right places. It is still a thing, and still very much being sold. You can also get weird things like moissanite jewelry as well.
Moissanite is the one I was talking about, apparently.

The story I heard is that it's more expensive than it used to be because they don't make it as much, because it's too obviously fake. However, I'm finding absolutely no corroboration of that so I dunno.

(The guy I heard this from was a top minerals researcher from Caltech, who discovered the test they used to detect artificial rubies for like twenty years until someone published it. )

Will update you if I figure out what was going on. Or if I wind up buying these cufflinks I'm now looking at.

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Mo » 12 Jun 2017, 23:38

I thought it's because they significantly improved the process, where old moissanite was greenish/yellow and the newer stuff is much more colorless, similar to diamonds. So the price has gone up, but so has the quality, due to improved manufacturing processes.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Number 6 » 13 Jun 2017, 00:41

The engagement ring I bought for my first spouse was a sapphire. It was understood that a diamond was not an option. The blood diamond factor was part of that, as was the cartel factor. But even more to the point, diamonds just aren't that pretty when compared to other stones. Sapphires, emeralds, hell even opals, are much nicer looking.

Shorter: jewelry diamonds are bullshit in every possible sense.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Sandy » 13 Jun 2017, 00:43

My Gen X but almost millennial wife outright refused a ring, let alone a diamond. Who ragged on me about it? Millennial women at work.
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Andrew » 28 Jun 2017, 22:02

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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Hugh Akston » 28 Jun 2017, 23:33

So like avotoast but on Orowheat bread?
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Hugh Akston » 18 Jul 2017, 12:15

NY Fed argues that high student debts are responsible for lower Millennial home ownership rates.
Looking at nine student cohorts, they concluded that the increase in public tuition and resulting student debt can account for anywhere between 11 and 35 percent of the decline in home ownership for 28- to 30-year-olds in the years between 2007 and 2015.
The paper also finds that there isn’t a significant relationship between increasing tuition and the number of students seeking higher education — perhaps a sign of the increasing necessity of higher education in attaining living wage work. “Students’ price elasticity of demand for higher education is quite low,” they conclude. “As college costs increase, American students do not forego education, but instead amass more debt.”
The second finding, the researchers caution, shouldn’t distract policymakers from the first one. “To the extent that the ongoing de-funding of public higher education has not been met, according to these estimates, by significant declines in educational attainment, some policymakers might be tempted to infer that de-funding public higher education is costless,” they write. “However, our estimates indicate that the cost of shifting the burden of funding higher education onto the student may arrive with a lag: Early homeownership, in our empirical models, appears responsive to the costs of higher education.”
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Re: Fragments of an avotoast anthropology

Post by Warren » 18 Jul 2017, 12:30

Hugh Akston wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 12:15
NY Fed argues that high student debts are responsible for lower Millennial home ownership rates.
Looking at nine student cohorts, they concluded that the increase in public tuition and resulting student debt can account for anywhere between 11 and 35 percent of the decline in home ownership for 28- to 30-year-olds in the years between 2007 and 2015.
The paper also finds that there isn’t a significant relationship between increasing tuition and the number of students seeking higher education — perhaps a sign of the increasing necessity of higher education in attaining living wage work. “Students’ price elasticity of demand for higher education is quite low,” they conclude. “As college costs increase, American students do not forego education, but instead amass more debt.”
The second finding, the researchers caution, shouldn’t distract policymakers from the first one. “To the extent that the ongoing de-funding of public higher education has not been met, according to these estimates, by significant declines in educational attainment, some policymakers might be tempted to infer that de-funding public higher education is costless,” they write. “However, our estimates indicate that the cost of shifting the burden of funding higher education onto the student may arrive with a lag: Early homeownership, in our empirical models, appears responsive to the costs of higher education.”
???
So the problem of skyrocketing cost of higher education is the government isn't pumping enough dollar bills into it?
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