Masculinity, so fragile

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Mo
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Mo » 16 Feb 2018, 11:30

dhex wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:57
Mo wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 09:35
I'm aware, I just wanted to release the dhex (hence Mission Accomplished). Almost all great art is political commentary.
i just can't resist leveling up my "pedantic twat" skill stats.
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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 16 Feb 2018, 11:41

dhex wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:57
nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 09:42
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 03:27
The "old wisdom" being what, "it's cool to rape a chick as long as you marry her when one of the kids you father on her crawls up and sucks the splinter out of her finger and she wakes up?"
It was helpfully explicated by one of the Reddit commenters: in Sleeping Beauty, the masculine represents civilization and reason and the feminine represents chaos and benightedness. So the handsome prince kisses her awake, symbolizing civilization's awakening of irrational humanity. But it's important to remember that it's "the masculine" and "the feminine," not "men" and "women," so it's totes not sexist.
this is why you don't mix evola and vape pens. (his book on tibetan buddhism is very entertaining btw. his other works are more uh idiosyncratic)

eta: it's absolutely a traditionalist interpretation of various myths from a euro pov - from the 19th century, mostly, tho.
Yeah, when I told L-dub about this yesterday his head almost exploded over how non-novel it all was.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 16 Feb 2018, 11:42

MJGreen wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 11:27
I only half-watched Frozen once, but I thought the 'message' of the movie was about family and sisterhood and junk, considering it's about one sister's love saving the other. The trope subversion that, actually, the handsome (foreign) prince is evil is just to move the plot along. I guess you could zero in on the idea that it was her sister and not a man that cured her, but that seems more to do with your priorities than the movie's.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't want to get too deep into it because I haven't seen it but obviously there are no traditional tropes about blood relatives helping you out or anything.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 16 Feb 2018, 11:57

You'd actually be hard pressed to find anything from an Irish writer that wasn't political.

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dhex
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by dhex » 16 Feb 2018, 12:01

Also true. It's why the third policeman is so dope on so many levels.
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Shem
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Shem » 16 Feb 2018, 12:07

JasonL wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:09
nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 09:42
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 03:27
The "old wisdom" being what, "it's cool to rape a chick as long as you marry her when one of the kids you father on her crawls up and sucks the splinter out of her finger and she wakes up?"
It was helpfully explicated by one of the Reddit commenters: in Sleeping Beauty, the masculine represents civilization and reason and the feminine represents chaos and benightedness. So the handsome prince kisses her awake, symbolizing civilization's awakening of irrational humanity. But it's important to remember that it's "the masculine" and "the feminine," not "men" and "women," so it's totes not sexist.
I don't get the traditionalist take. They seem to like dying on hills that make no sense.
Especially since, again, the traditional story involved rape and sleep delivery of the products of said rape. The whole "it was only a kiss" story came up centuries later to soften the story for new social mores. You want me to take you seriously, argue that it's about civilization raping nature into submission. Otherwise, you're just being a Texas Marksman with pieces of history.
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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 16 Feb 2018, 12:14

I mean, the least clear thing is why he isn’t just saying that. I mean look how useful rape was for traditional societies. Why would we think we know something they don’t? Rape is truth and beauty.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Sandy » 16 Feb 2018, 12:36

nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 12:14
I mean, the least clear thing is why he isn’t just saying that. I mean look how useful rape was for traditional societies. Why would we think we know something they don’t? Rape is truth and beauty.
If it works for ducks and porpoises, two of nature's most beautiful animals...
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Shem
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Shem » 16 Feb 2018, 12:38

Doesn't the current evidence suggest it *doesn't* work for ducks?
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Sandy » 16 Feb 2018, 12:51

Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 12:38
Doesn't the current evidence suggest it *doesn't* work for ducks?
I thought it was more that they were locked in an evolutionary battle, much like the crazy alt universe guys on ST:TOS.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Shem » 16 Feb 2018, 13:21

Sandy wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 12:51
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 12:38
Doesn't the current evidence suggest it *doesn't* work for ducks?
I thought it was more that they were locked in an evolutionary battle, much like the crazy alt universe guys on ST:TOS.
That's possible. I just remember reading that the corkscrew genitals make conception almost impossible without the female's cooperation.
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Jasper » 16 Feb 2018, 13:40

It's almost like no one has realized Peterson is basically the Joseph Campbell of the Millennials.
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Sandy » 16 Feb 2018, 13:42

Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 13:21
Sandy wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 12:51
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 12:38
Doesn't the current evidence suggest it *doesn't* work for ducks?
I thought it was more that they were locked in an evolutionary battle, much like the crazy alt universe guys on ST:TOS.
That's possible. I just remember reading that the corkscrew genitals make conception almost impossible without the female's cooperation.
It's useful to remember that no matter what, all birds are assholes.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Painboy
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Painboy » 16 Feb 2018, 13:43

nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 11:41
dhex wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:57
nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 09:42
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 03:27
The "old wisdom" being what, "it's cool to rape a chick as long as you marry her when one of the kids you father on her crawls up and sucks the splinter out of her finger and she wakes up?"
It was helpfully explicated by one of the Reddit commenters: in Sleeping Beauty, the masculine represents civilization and reason and the feminine represents chaos and benightedness. So the handsome prince kisses her awake, symbolizing civilization's awakening of irrational humanity. But it's important to remember that it's "the masculine" and "the feminine," not "men" and "women," so it's totes not sexist.
this is why you don't mix evola and vape pens. (his book on tibetan buddhism is very entertaining btw. his other works are more uh idiosyncratic)

eta: it's absolutely a traditionalist interpretation of various myths from a euro pov - from the 19th century, mostly, tho.
Yeah, when I told L-dub about this yesterday his head almost exploded over how non-novel it all was.
It's like reruns. If you haven't seen it it's new to you. Collective knowledge doesn't really exist.

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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 16 Feb 2018, 13:44

Jasper wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 13:40
It's almost like no one has realized Peterson is basically the Joseph Campbell of the Millennials.
Haha that’s exactly what I said to L-dub yesterday.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Warren » 16 Feb 2018, 14:02

nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 11:42
MJGreen wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 11:27
I only half-watched Frozen once, but I thought the 'message' of the movie was about family and sisterhood and junk, considering it's about one sister's love saving the other. The trope subversion that, actually, the handsome (foreign) prince is evil is just to move the plot along. I guess you could zero in on the idea that it was her sister and not a man that cured her, but that seems more to do with your priorities than the movie's.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't want to get too deep into it because I haven't seen it but obviously there are no traditional tropes about blood relatives helping you out or anything.
My Frozen-so-stupid take-away was over how Elsa had to master her superpower by never using it.

While I thought the "true love" twist of it being sibling love was fine on it's own, it didn't work in the movie on account of how the sisters never bonded with each other past early childhood was so integral to the plot.
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 16 Feb 2018, 14:18

I keep confusing J Peterson with J Peterman.
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JasonL
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by JasonL » 16 Feb 2018, 14:19

I didn't know anything about Peterson until very recently like maybe this thread so yeah me too.

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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Dangerman » 16 Feb 2018, 15:03

nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 13:44
Jasper wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 13:40
It's almost like no one has realized Peterson is basically the Joseph Campbell of the Millennials.
Haha that’s exactly what I said to L-dub yesterday.
As long as we get someone to make Apocalypse Now- and Star Wars-equivalent movies, I'll take it.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 16 Feb 2018, 15:07

I, for one, prefer it when these cults of personality come and go without my ever having to pay attention. (Pretty much like most music from the 80s and 90s.)

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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 16 Feb 2018, 15:28

Painboy wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 13:43
nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 11:41
dhex wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:57
nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 09:42
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 03:27
The "old wisdom" being what, "it's cool to rape a chick as long as you marry her when one of the kids you father on her crawls up and sucks the splinter out of her finger and she wakes up?"
It was helpfully explicated by one of the Reddit commenters: in Sleeping Beauty, the masculine represents civilization and reason and the feminine represents chaos and benightedness. So the handsome prince kisses her awake, symbolizing civilization's awakening of irrational humanity. But it's important to remember that it's "the masculine" and "the feminine," not "men" and "women," so it's totes not sexist.
this is why you don't mix evola and vape pens. (his book on tibetan buddhism is very entertaining btw. his other works are more uh idiosyncratic)

eta: it's absolutely a traditionalist interpretation of various myths from a euro pov - from the 19th century, mostly, tho.
Yeah, when I told L-dub about this yesterday his head almost exploded over how non-novel it all was.
It's like reruns. If you haven't seen it it's new to you. Collective knowledge doesn't really exist.
No, but education does, at least for some people.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 16 Feb 2018, 16:00

nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 15:28
Painboy wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 13:43
nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 11:41
dhex wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:57
nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 09:42
Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 03:27
The "old wisdom" being what, "it's cool to rape a chick as long as you marry her when one of the kids you father on her crawls up and sucks the splinter out of her finger and she wakes up?"
It was helpfully explicated by one of the Reddit commenters: in Sleeping Beauty, the masculine represents civilization and reason and the feminine represents chaos and benightedness. So the handsome prince kisses her awake, symbolizing civilization's awakening of irrational humanity. But it's important to remember that it's "the masculine" and "the feminine," not "men" and "women," so it's totes not sexist.
this is why you don't mix evola and vape pens. (his book on tibetan buddhism is very entertaining btw. his other works are more uh idiosyncratic)

eta: it's absolutely a traditionalist interpretation of various myths from a euro pov - from the 19th century, mostly, tho.
Yeah, when I told L-dub about this yesterday his head almost exploded over how non-novel it all was.
It's like reruns. If you haven't seen it it's new to you. Collective knowledge doesn't really exist.
No, but education does, at least for some people.
Yeah, but this is flaky stuff that no one would actually try to expose you to. It's somewhere between "Chariot of the Gods" and the more grandiose claims of semiotics, so it getting "rediscovered" every so often is to be expected.
Last edited by Fin Fang Foom on 16 Feb 2018, 16:03, edited 1 time in total.
". . . even the federalist folk are probably a bit wary, and they're essentially cosplaying the preacher from footloose." - dhex

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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 16 Feb 2018, 16:01

You only have to read Middlemarch to be exposed to it.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 16 Feb 2018, 16:05

I thought you were talking about it's Ted Talk-like "explains everything" sort of angle.
". . . even the federalist folk are probably a bit wary, and they're essentially cosplaying the preacher from footloose." - dhex

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Painboy
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Painboy » 16 Feb 2018, 17:18

nicole wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 16:01
You only have to read Middlemarch to be exposed to it.
I've never even heard of that and I'm a college graduate and do a fair amount of reading on top of that. There's a lot of stuff out there.

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