Masculinity, so fragile

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nicole
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Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 04 Apr 2017, 12:31

Fair's fair
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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 04 Apr 2017, 12:31

Men have three interests: blowing things up, not talking, and insulting people.
Imagine that friendship is a good that people acquire in exchange for the currency of their time. The average man lives in a competitive friendship market where some forms of friendship appeal to him more than others and therefore get his business. What then, is the average man looking for in a friend? By and large, something along these lines:

Someone who shares his interest in activities such as watching movies where things explode, playing video games where things explode, or putting fireworks in things so they’ll explode. Bonus points if you enjoy yelling at football players through the television set and laughing at noxious flatulence.
Someone who won’t pressure him to open up beyond his comfort level if his girlfriend breaks up with him,he loses his job, or his mom gets eaten by a yeti.
Someone who cherishes the man tradition of showing affection through insults and general jackassery.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/04/men ... t-friends/
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

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Aresen
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Aresen » 04 Apr 2017, 12:35

nicole wrote:Men have three interests: blowing things up, not talking, and insulting people.
Imagine that friendship is a good that people acquire in exchange for the currency of their time. The average man lives in a competitive friendship market where some forms of friendship appeal to him more than others and therefore get his business. What then, is the average man looking for in a friend? By and large, something along these lines:

Someone who shares his interest in activities such as 1) watching movies where things explode, 2) playing video games where things explode, or 3) putting fireworks in things so they’ll explode. Bonus points if you 4) enjoy yelling at football players through the television set and 5) laughing at noxious flatulence.
Someone who 6) won’t pressure him to open up beyond his comfort level if his girlfriend breaks up with him,he loses his job, or his mom gets eaten by a yeti.
Someone who cherishes the man tradition of showing affection through 7) insults and 8) general jackassery.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/04/men ... t-friends/
Looks like I qualify. :mrgreen:
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lunchstealer
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by lunchstealer » 04 Apr 2017, 12:45

Aresen wrote:
nicole wrote:Men have three interests: blowing things up, not talking, and insulting people.
Imagine that friendship is a good that people acquire in exchange for the currency of their time. The average man lives in a competitive friendship market where some forms of friendship appeal to him more than others and therefore get his business. What then, is the average man looking for in a friend? By and large, something along these lines:

Someone who shares his interest in activities such as 1) watching movies where things explode, 2) playing video games where things explode, or 3) putting fireworks in things so they’ll explode. Bonus points if you 4) enjoy yelling at football players through the television set and 5) laughing at noxious flatulence.
Someone who 6) won’t pressure him to open up beyond his comfort level if his girlfriend breaks up with him,he loses his job, or his mom gets eaten by a yeti.
Someone who cherishes the man tradition of showing affection through 7) insults and 8) general jackassery.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/04/men ... t-friends/
Looks like I qualify. :mrgreen:
Your mama qualifies.

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Hugh Akston » 04 Apr 2017, 12:49

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thoreau
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by thoreau » 04 Apr 2017, 13:06

I'm more sympathetic to the plight of the Friend-Zoned than most people here, but that piece makes me want to burn my old Chris Rock CDs.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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JasonL
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by JasonL » 04 Apr 2017, 13:21

Die die die - reaper.

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Warren
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Warren » 04 Apr 2017, 14:42

nicole wrote:Men have three interests: blowing things up, not talking, and insulting people.
Imagine that friendship is a good that people acquire in exchange for the currency of their time. The average man lives in a competitive friendship market where some forms of friendship appeal to him more than others and therefore get his business. What then, is the average man looking for in a friend? By and large, something along these lines:

Someone who shares his interest in activities such as watching movies where things explode [yeah splosions are cool], playing video games where things explode [I don't really play video games], or putting fireworks in things so they’ll explode [What am I, twelve?]. Bonus points if you enjoy yelling at football players through the television set and laughing at noxious flatulence [Oh hell no, adults that think farts are funny is sufficient reason to extinct the species].
Someone who won’t pressure him to open up beyond his comfort level if his girlfriend breaks up with him,he loses his job, or his mom gets eaten by a yeti. [Well duh. Who wants to be pressured to do anything outside their comfort level for any reason ever?]
Someone who cherishes the man tradition of showing affection through insults and general jackassery. [Fuck that noise]
http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/04/men ... t-friends/
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JD
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by JD » 04 Apr 2017, 14:44

nicole wrote:Men have three interests: blowing things up, not talking, and insulting people.
Eh, D.H. Lawrence said it better.
D.H. Lawrence wrote:The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer.
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fyodor
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by fyodor » 04 Apr 2017, 16:16

I think it was in a book by Camus that I read that the modern man likes to fornicate and read the papers.

That probably describes more of us here.
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

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Shem
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Shem » 04 Apr 2017, 16:24

Shem's Easy Two Step Solution for Avoiding the Friendzone.
1) grow a pair
2) ask her out

At the end, you will no longer be in the Friendzone. Of course, then you also can't enjoy those delicious martyr feelings while you ignore your dishonesty, so tradeoffs.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

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Kolohe
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Kolohe » 04 Apr 2017, 16:29

Looking at the Federalist for analysis of the interplay between gender and society is like looking to the Venezuelan goverment for analysis of macroeconomics.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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dhex
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by dhex » 04 Apr 2017, 16:37

Holy shit. I always thought the federalist was a doctrinaire libertarian org. I had no idea they were an improv comedy troupe.
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Jennifer
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Jennifer » 04 Apr 2017, 16:43

That article Nicole posted was downright wince-inducing to read. Though I think it would've been quicker and easier for the guy to just say "I am a man who thinks only with my dick when in the presence of any woman of child-bearing age, and I project this Freudian obsessiveness onto every other man I meet."
Just because men don’t want to be your friend, however, doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy your company. They most certainly do. They love discovering how you see the world, what you think about life, the universe, and everything. They love your kindness, thoughtfulness, sensitivity, support, and your nurturing heart. They love being in your presence when you display the wonders of the feminine virtues.

But because God designed these virtues to entice men into marriage, the average man will never be content to receive those gifts in a form of companionship that doesn’t lead to marriage. Quite simply, men can’t be at peace being just friends. And there’s nothing you can do to change that. Platonic chilling won’t stop your inner (and outer) beauty from pulling a man towards romantic love. Telling him he’s like a brother to you won’t stop his brain from shouting “Marry that woman and impregnate her now” when he encounters your femininity.
Uh-huh. All the certain male Gryll-members who shall remain nameless -- many of whom are happily married -- anytime we've had a private off-forum chat, let alone meeting in person, y'all were just hoping to get me knocked up, no?
Accept the truth, ladies. You don’t have any guy friends. You can’t have any guy friends. And because America can no longer afford to have its young adults waste their fertile years thinking otherwise, the time has come to tear down the Friend Zone and set free every man trapped within its confines.

Consider your best guy friend. Are you attracted to him? Does he fill you with the biological desire to repopulate the earth? If not, then do your “friend” a solid and let him go. Call him up and tell him, “It’s not my fault that your facial symmetry grosses out my ovaries, but it was my fault that I got your hopes up by putting you in the Friend Zone. As restitution, please accept the phone numbers of five girls I know who find you attractive. Stop wasting your time with me and go hang out with a girl who might one day bear your children.”
Well, it sure as hell would be impossible to have any guy friends if you go through life acting like that. "Yo, dude, just to let you know: my name is not Julian Sanchez, but I'm still not gonna fuck you."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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nicole
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by nicole » 04 Apr 2017, 16:49

I especially enjoyed how all the parts that would "normally" be like "he just wants to fuck you" were like "he just wants to marry you."
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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Painboy
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Painboy » 04 Apr 2017, 16:57

Shem wrote:Shem's Easy Two Step Solution for Avoiding the Friendzone.
1) grow a pair
2) ask her out

At the end, you will no longer be in the Friendzone. Of course, then you also can't enjoy those delicious martyr feelings while you ignore your dishonesty, so tradeoffs.
That doesn't always work as the girl will say no and still want to "hang out." And to someone with little self esteem, as well as a belief that "things still might happen," it's enough to keep them locked into it.

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Jennifer
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Jennifer » 04 Apr 2017, 17:04

nicole wrote:I especially enjoyed how all the parts that would "normally" be like "he just wants to fuck you" were like "he just wants to marry you."
I wonder where happily married people (of either sex) fit into his equations? Are my married male friends not only pining for want of me, but for a society where polygamy is legal so they can marry me and all their other woman friends, and add us to their stable of spouses?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Shem
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Shem » 04 Apr 2017, 17:13

Painboy wrote:
Shem wrote:Shem's Easy Two Step Solution for Avoiding the Friendzone.
1) grow a pair
2) ask her out

At the end, you will no longer be in the Friendzone. Of course, then you also can't enjoy those delicious martyr feelings while you ignore your dishonesty, so tradeoffs.
That doesn't always work as the girl will say no and still want to "hang out." And to someone with little self esteem, as well as a belief that "things still might happen," it's enough to keep them locked into it.
You're not wrong, but I would maintain that it works in 9 cases out of 10. And for the remaining case, it is best explained by "some people are assholes who like to use people," rather than "something something Friendzone."
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dhex
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by dhex » 04 Apr 2017, 17:24

thank god we live in the kingdom of feelings.
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fyodor
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by fyodor » 04 Apr 2017, 17:54

dhex wrote:thank god we live in the kingdom of feelings.
Thank god we live in the kingdom of fat too. Cause it's a step up from what came before, it's the problem we get for solving more urgent problems.
Your optimism just confuses and enrages me. - Timothy

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Sandy
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Sandy » 04 Apr 2017, 17:57

Shem wrote:
Painboy wrote:
Shem wrote:Shem's Easy Two Step Solution for Avoiding the Friendzone.
1) grow a pair
2) ask her out

At the end, you will no longer be in the Friendzone. Of course, then you also can't enjoy those delicious martyr feelings while you ignore your dishonesty, so tradeoffs.
That doesn't always work as the girl will say no and still want to "hang out." And to someone with little self esteem, as well as a belief that "things still might happen," it's enough to keep them locked into it.
You're not wrong, but I would maintain that it works in 9 cases out of 10. And for the remaining case, it is best explained by "some people are assholes who like to use people," rather than "something something Friendzone."
My experience was a very different ratio than you describe.

But in general, I agree with your solution. The trick is educating people that the person who just wants to hang out and "be friends" after such is in fact an abuser, and that things like the most recent Doctor Who Christmas special are to men what the "grab the woman you're with and force her to kiss you over her objections" trope is to women.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Jennifer
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Jennifer » 04 Apr 2017, 18:12

The article seems to assume that every single man who is friends with any woman can only be pining for want of sex with her. I'm disinclined to believe that all men (or even a majority) are such utter horndogs that they can't talk to any non-related woman without wanting to fuck her. That's the same oversexed logic Saudi Arabia and Talibanland use to demand strict segregation of the sexes in all situations.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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JasonL
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by JasonL » 04 Apr 2017, 18:56

It's 360 degree willful denial.

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Jennifer
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Jennifer » 04 Apr 2017, 19:10

And another thing -- this sounds like a terribly catty question, but it's impossible to discuss this dreck article on its own terms without sounding like some type of loathsome person -- are men permalusting after all women they see, or "only" the ones considered attractive by modern standards? Can a man be friends with an ugly woman of childbearing age, or does the mere existence of XX-ness override everything else in his brain? What about women who are conventionally attractive, but not the man's "type?" (Speaking as a woman, there are certainly men I consider "attractive," but that is not the same thing as being attracted to them. If I were a Hollywood casting director, I'm sure I could do an adequate job of finding attractive male blonde-bronze-lifeguard-types, even though I personally would not be attracted to them (unless I got to know them and it turns out their personality does mesh with mine).) .Surely men have an equivalent -- "Yes, she is pretty or even beautiful, but just not my type?" So, can men be friends with those women, according to this oversexed author?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Warren
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Re: Masculinity, so fragile

Post by Warren » 04 Apr 2017, 19:54

Jennifer wrote:The article seems to assume that every single man who is friends with any woman can only be pining for want of sex with her. I'm disinclined to believe that all men (or even a majority) are such utter horndogs that they can't talk to any non-related woman without wanting to fuck her. That's the same oversexed logic Saudi Arabia and Talibanland use to demand strict segregation of the sexes in all situations.
Without wanting to? Ummm hmmm. The levels of testosterone men between the ages of say 18-40 are walking around with is scary high. And wanting to stick ones dick in anything semi attractive is a consequence of that. That being said, men are fully formed human beings with free will and are responsible for their behavior. As the great philosopher Jagger once said "You can't always get what you want". That's a lesson everyone should learn early.

EDIT
In regards to the immediate above.
Attractiveness is a complicated thing. Most men don't get a hardon for Diana Rigg (anymore). Any number of things can make a woman unattractive, but that may not be a permanent thing. A man's taste can change or his relationship with the woman can change. Or just her perceived availability. Elbows too pointy is something you can hold against starlets, but a man can tolerate much sharper hinges on a woman that will agree to date him.
Last edited by Warren on 04 Apr 2017, 20:05, edited 3 times in total.
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