The Enemy of My Enemy

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Well ... can't hurt to much to follow the link and find out what's going on.

*clicks link*

Whoa!

*heads back into thread*

You guys are very bad people sometimes. Smh.
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Warren
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote:
07 Feb 2020, 12:22
I feel like people who use Twitter are using a lower bar for fame than people who don't.
Ah. Yes, that must be it.
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thoreau
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by thoreau »

Eric the .5b wrote:
07 Feb 2020, 15:04
Does FIRE ever do anything in favor of students who aren't conservative and Christian? I keep going back to Ken White and others pointing out free speech situations on campus they never go near.
https://www.thefire.org/whale-done-anim ... nt-uproar/
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Eric the .5b »

thoreau wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 14:20
Eric the .5b wrote:
07 Feb 2020, 15:04
Does FIRE ever do anything in favor of students who aren't conservative and Christian? I keep going back to Ken White and others pointing out free speech situations on campus they never go near.
https://www.thefire.org/whale-done-anim ... nt-uproar/
Yeah, Jadagul linked to that last week. I know I shouldn't have said "ever", even though I'm not sure what I would have gotten beyond the same links if I'd said "how often" instead.
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Jadagul
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Jadagul »

I just looked through the recent press releases. If you don't code "pro-fraternity" as left or right, it seemed about even? But that was eyeballing and a sample size of like ten.

I do know that people like Ken White are generally pretty pro-FIRE.

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thoreau
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by thoreau »

Eric the .5b wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 17:06
thoreau wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 14:20
Eric the .5b wrote:
07 Feb 2020, 15:04
Does FIRE ever do anything in favor of students who aren't conservative and Christian? I keep going back to Ken White and others pointing out free speech situations on campus they never go near.
https://www.thefire.org/whale-done-anim ... nt-uproar/
Yeah, Jadagul linked to that last week. I know I shouldn't have said "ever", even though I'm not sure what I would have gotten beyond the same links if I'd said "how often" instead.
Sorry, missed that. I just thought of it because I saw someone elsewhere post it today.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

How often is a left-leaning student group likely to need FIRE's help?

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thoreau
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by thoreau »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 18:15
How often is a left-leaning student group likely to need FIRE's help?
They have their own ways of crossing lines and offending administrators. Or offending normies and making town-gown relations harder.

It's probably less frequent, because most administrators will want to go easier on them, but there are also more lefty students, so even if the per capita rate of free speech infringements suffered is lower, the numbers could still be significant.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to argue that lefty astronomers are a threat to academic freedom. But I'm also pretty sure that if a lefty student group decided to dump a metaphorical turd in the punch bowl, e.g. by loudly pointing out embarrassing facts about mismanagement while the university president is trying to host dignitaries, campus police would show up and they might cross some lines that would trigger a need for FIRE and/or the ACLU.

And that's the other thing: The Director of the Center For Diversity is assuredly a lefty who (usually) wants to side with kids who are protesting, but campus cops are cops and protesters are protesters.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Warren
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Warren »

thoreau wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 18:42
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 18:15
How often is a left-leaning student group likely to need FIRE's help?
They have their own ways of crossing lines and offending administrators. Or offending normies and making town-gown relations harder.

It's probably less frequent, because most administrators will want to go easier on them, but there are also more lefty students, so even if the per capita rate of free speech infringements suffered is lower, the numbers could still be significant.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to argue that lefty astronomers are a threat to academic freedom. But I'm also pretty sure that if a lefty student group decided to dump a metaphorical turd in the punch bowl, e.g. by loudly pointing out embarrassing facts about mismanagement while the university president is trying to host dignitaries, campus police would show up and they might cross some lines that would trigger a need for FIRE and/or the ACLU.

And that's the other thing: The Director of the Center For Diversity is assuredly a lefty who (usually) wants to side with kids who are protesting, but campus cops are cops and protesters are protesters.
My guess is that a contingent of the student body, the faculty, local press, and a twit mob would all spontaneously rise up and cow the administration before any legal action was necessary.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Well, my sense is both that lefties attempting to deplatform conservatives is way more common than vice versa and also that many student conservatives welcome the uproar because it's free publicity and networking with real conservatives for later when they apply for internships, etc.

I just don't see many stories about 60s style lefties trying to close the campus down or whatever, nor do I ever hear stories about the student government refusing to give funding to even the most insane lefty groups.

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Jadagul
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Jadagul »

It depends on where the pressure is coming from.

Student activist pressure is generally anti-conservative. But outside political pressure is generally anti-liberal. There are a lot of attempts by especially red-state legislatures to deplatform lefty college activism.

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Mo
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Mo »

Jadagul wrote:
07 Feb 2020, 15:25
I know who David French is because Popehat is generally a fan of him.

Looking through their recent press releases, I found one defending an animal rights group and another about defending a pro-pot event. And other things aren't "liberal" but aren't about defending conservative groups; they have some stuff on Title IX, a bunch dealing with fraternities for some reason...
He is good about freedom of religion unless it's Muslims being hounded by conservatives.
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Mo
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Mo »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 18:15
How often is a left-leaning student group likely to need FIRE's help?
Whenever they say something pro-Palestinian or anti-Israeli.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Warren »

Mo wrote:
11 Feb 2020, 06:14
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
10 Feb 2020, 18:15
How often is a left-leaning student group likely to need FIRE's help?
Whenever they say something pro-Palestinian or anti-Israeli.
There would be plenty of support from students/faculty.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Eric the .5b »

I'm probably not giving enough credit to FIRE, looking into it. I'd gotten the impression that they were the right-wing version of what the left wants the ACLU to be—flacks for their side's activists.
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Jadagul
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Jadagul »

Not to beat a dead horse, but here is FIRE defending a professor who made a fairly offensive and dumb anti-Trump joke.

(And a professor getting into serious trouble for being lefty, which several people suggested isn't a thing.)

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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Warren »

Jadagul wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 23:07
Not to beat a dead horse, but here is FIRE defending a professor who made a fairly offensive and dumb anti-Trump joke.

(And a professor getting into serious trouble for being lefty, which several people suggested isn't a thing.)
It can be a thing in a tiny private business school. It can even be a thing in a large private religious school.
It is not a thing in universities.
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Jadagul
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Jadagul »

Warren wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 23:53
Jadagul wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 23:07
Not to beat a dead horse, but here is FIRE defending a professor who made a fairly offensive and dumb anti-Trump joke.

(And a professor getting into serious trouble for being lefty, which several people suggested isn't a thing.)
It can be a thing in a tiny private business school. It can even be a thing in a large private religious school.
It is not a thing in universities.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Ouste ... eme/245732

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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Warren »

Jadagul wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 23:58
Warren wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 23:53
Jadagul wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 23:07
Not to beat a dead horse, but here is FIRE defending a professor who made a fairly offensive and dumb anti-Trump joke.

(And a professor getting into serious trouble for being lefty, which several people suggested isn't a thing.)
It can be a thing in a tiny private business school. It can even be a thing in a large private religious school.
It is not a thing in universities.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Ouste ... eme/245732
Criticizing Israel does not a lefty make.
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thoreau
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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by thoreau »

Criticism of Israel is certainly not an exclusively lefty stance, but Salaita's criticism of Israel was definitely of a lefty flavor. It is also one of the few stridently lefty stances that some major universities will occasionally throw people under the bus over.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: The Enemy of My Enemy

Post by Warren »

fair enough
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