PS 411

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the innominate one
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Re: PS 411

Post by the innominate one » 01 Feb 2018, 14:24

Do we know that the teachers wanted this strategy?
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JasonL
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Re: PS 411

Post by JasonL » 01 Feb 2018, 14:27

I don't think we in general see cases like this differently. I'm very sympathetic to what I take to be your views on preparedness trumping diversity, STEM or other disciplinary quotas/enrollment targets, and even the role of edufads. I think the great majority of failure is in K-12, I think changing that is super hard to maybe impossible in a persistent manner, and I think that the most significant failure is the lack of a skills based path instead of a 4 year degree for people who simply aren't going to succeed in college or university unless you dilute the product to the point of meaninglessness. The Bernie left's obsession with free college is a nightmare.

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Sandy
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Re: PS 411

Post by Sandy » 01 Feb 2018, 15:44

the innominate one wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 14:24
Do we know that the teachers wanted this strategy?
I don't think it says, but I'm willing to bet there were administrators who were totally into it. Probably some teachers, but I'm guessing a number of others were eye-rolling heavily. But I don't think there's information one way or the other.
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Sandy
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Re: PS 411

Post by Sandy » 01 Feb 2018, 15:45

On a different form of dumb:

A proposed bill in the New Mexico legislature would prohibit students from graduating unless they inform the state of their post-high school plans, and yes, you must have them:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/01/health/n ... index.html
The bill states that high school juniors would have to file a plan showing they're applying for admission to a college, taking steps to enter the military or preparing for an internship or apprenticeship.
The plan would be filed with the high school principal and the student's parents and guidance counselor would have to sign off on it.
EDIT: for accuracy of the state of the bill
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nicole
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Re: PS 411

Post by nicole » 01 Feb 2018, 16:06

Sandy wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 15:45
On a different form of dumb:

A proposed bill in the New Mexico legislature would prohibit students from graduating unless they inform the state of their post-high school plans, and yes, you must have them:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/01/health/n ... index.html
The bill states that high school juniors would have to file a plan showing they're applying for admission to a college, taking steps to enter the military or preparing for an internship or apprenticeship.
The plan would be filed with the high school principal and the student's parents and guidance counselor would have to sign off on it.
EDIT: for accuracy of the state of the bill
The city tried to do that here but I haven't heard anything about it for a while now.
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Sandy
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Re: PS 411

Post by Sandy » 01 Feb 2018, 16:11

nicole wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 16:06
The city tried to do that here but I haven't heard anything about it for a while now.
According to the article, that doesn't take effect until 2020.
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thoreau
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Re: PS 411

Post by thoreau » 01 Feb 2018, 16:39

Sandy wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 15:44
the innominate one wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 14:24
Do we know that the teachers wanted this strategy?
I don't think it says, but I'm willing to bet there were administrators who were totally into it. Probably some teachers, but I'm guessing a number of others were eye-rolling heavily. But I don't think there's information one way or the other.
My bet is a 4-fold split between true believers, eye rollers, "No, komrade, I am not a wrecker! I completely support the Fve Year Plan! I swear!" and "I am not reading this or any other memo unless it is in my job description as negotiated by the union, instead I am just doing what I always do until I'm eligible to retire."
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the innominate one
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Re: PS 411

Post by the innominate one » 01 Feb 2018, 22:17

The shift began in 2013, when Edina school leaders adopted the “All for All” strategic plan—a sweeping initiative that reordered the district’s mission from academic excellence for all students to “racial equity.”
Emphasis added. No doubt some teachers were for it and probably as many were agin' it or agnostic. But let's reserve the two minutes' hate for those that are responsible for it. Sometimes that's the teachers, but not always.
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Sandy
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Re: PS 411

Post by Sandy » 01 Feb 2018, 23:06

the innominate one wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 22:17
The shift began in 2013, when Edina school leaders adopted the “All for All” strategic plan—a sweeping initiative that reordered the district’s mission from academic excellence for all students to “racial equity.”
Emphasis added. No doubt some teachers were for it and probably as many were agin' it or agnostic. But let's reserve the two minutes' hate for those that are responsible for it. Sometimes that's the teachers, but not always.
Who was hating on the teachers?
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lunchstealer
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Re: PS 411

Post by lunchstealer » 03 Feb 2018, 18:32

I am.
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Mo
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Re: PS 411

Post by Mo » 03 Feb 2018, 21:35

JasonL wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 13:28
nicole wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 12:52
The really weird thing is that this suggests public school interventions have any effect at all.
I totally believe you can consciously alter a high performing school and make it lower quality. I don't think interventions have randomly distributed effects, more like "high performing" is an unstable equilibrium and interventions seeking things other than high performance will tend to send things toward the median case.
My old high school went from top 10 in the state when I attended to top 20 in the county today. Much of it was based on penny pinching on faculty and shifting focus away from academics.
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Re: PS 411

Post by Dangerman » 28 Mar 2018, 21:29


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Jake
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jake » 03 Apr 2018, 00:12

What a cock. If you're going to ask a question, allow the person to answer the question, and then ask your next question in light of whatever the response actually was, rather than what you've previously decided the response is going to be.
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Re: PS 411

Post by Dangerman » 03 Apr 2018, 10:24

I thought it was instructive that contra nicole, the school administrator did not seem very keen on imprisoning children.

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Aresen
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Re: PS 411

Post by Aresen » 03 Apr 2018, 11:16

A minor observation on the subject of home-schooling:

I have noticed that liberal commenters - Maher, Oliver, and others - invariably portray home-schoolers as fundamentalist Christians who 'don't want their children exposed to non-Christian ideas' (especially evolution). I have no idea if this is true of the majority of home-schoolers, but I have seen a lot of comments from home-schoolers whose concern is the quality of public schools, not the religious (or anti-religious) content.

They never raise the subject of how teacher's unions protect incompetent teachers.
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Andrew
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Re: PS 411

Post by Andrew » 03 Apr 2018, 13:07

Aresen wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 11:16
A minor observation on the subject of home-schooling:

I have noticed that liberal commenters - Maher, Oliver, and others - invariably portray home-schoolers as fundamentalist Christians who 'don't want their children exposed to non-Christian ideas' (especially evolution). I have no idea if this is true of the majority of home-schoolers, but I have seen a lot of comments from home-schoolers whose concern is the quality of public schools, not the religious (or anti-religious) content.

They never raise the subject of how teacher's unions protect incompetent teachers.
In my anecdotal experience, home schooling seems split evenly between the far right and far left. It's like anti-vaxxers.
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Mo
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Re: PS 411

Post by Mo » 03 Apr 2018, 14:35

Andrew wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 13:07
Aresen wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 11:16
A minor observation on the subject of home-schooling:

I have noticed that liberal commenters - Maher, Oliver, and others - invariably portray home-schoolers as fundamentalist Christians who 'don't want their children exposed to non-Christian ideas' (especially evolution). I have no idea if this is true of the majority of home-schoolers, but I have seen a lot of comments from home-schoolers whose concern is the quality of public schools, not the religious (or anti-religious) content.

They never raise the subject of how teacher's unions protect incompetent teachers.
In my anecdotal experience, home schooling seems split evenly between the far right and far left. It's like anti-vaxxers.
Also, a high proportion are anti-vaxxers. Almost zero that I have observed do home schooling because of school quality.
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Ellie
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Re: PS 411

Post by Ellie » 03 Apr 2018, 15:45

Andrew wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 13:07
Aresen wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 11:16
A minor observation on the subject of home-schooling:

I have noticed that liberal commenters - Maher, Oliver, and others - invariably portray home-schoolers as fundamentalist Christians who 'don't want their children exposed to non-Christian ideas' (especially evolution). I have no idea if this is true of the majority of home-schoolers, but I have seen a lot of comments from home-schoolers whose concern is the quality of public schools, not the religious (or anti-religious) content.

They never raise the subject of how teacher's unions protect incompetent teachers.
In my anecdotal experience, home schooling seems split evenly between the far right and far left. It's like anti-vaxxers.
Same here (my experience being reading a shit-ton about it on the internet).
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Jennifer
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jennifer » 03 Apr 2018, 16:22

I've been watching stories about the Oklahoma teacher walkout; many of the teachers have been posting photos of the dilapidated equipment or textbooks they have to work with. I am gobsmacked that the state government was stupid enough to let things deteriorate so badly. The backlash is likely to end up going too-far in the other direction.
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Highway
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Re: PS 411

Post by Highway » 03 Apr 2018, 17:01

It's Oklahoma. Kansas is like that, too. You can think that those "flyover country" stereotypes are a little too harsh, but everything I've ever heard from people who live or lived there is that they don't go far enough for the reality of those places.
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Jennifer
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jennifer » 03 Apr 2018, 17:10

Thinking about stuff like this photo -- and I've seen even worse "damaged chairs kids are expected to sit in" pics, though I cannot find them now -- even hardcore "teachers don't deserve a raise, if anything they're paid too much money for what they do" would have a hell of a hrd time winning converts to the argument "Also, these damaged chairs with their jagged edges are totes fine for students to sit in."

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lunchstealer
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Re: PS 411

Post by lunchstealer » 03 Apr 2018, 17:46

Wait, I wasn't supposed to sit in chairs like that in grade school?
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Jennifer
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jennifer » 03 Apr 2018, 18:02

I'm amazed no kid got hurt bad enough for his parents to sue.
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lunchstealer
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Re: PS 411

Post by lunchstealer » 03 Apr 2018, 18:57

Seriously though, the clean breaks on the back are no big deal, but the splits in the seat bed, those suck. You sit down wearing shorts, especially the very short tennis shorts that were the style in the early/mid '80s, prior to the advent of jams, you ran the very real risk of getting pinched between two sharp plastic vice grips. It was not among the pleasant things.

Why yes, South Carolina public schools were ranked in the far end of the 40s. "Thank God for Mississippi" was the state motto whenever rankings came out and we were 49th.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

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"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Jennifer
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jennifer » 03 Apr 2018, 19:01

lunchstealer wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 18:57
Seriously though, the clean breaks on the back are no big deal,
Depends on how young the kids in question are, IMO. Those edges look sharp enough to cut skin if applied at the wrong angle.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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