PS 411

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nicole
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Re: PS 411

Post by nicole » 21 Jun 2018, 16:22

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:13
nicole wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:03
They're going to have a much better chance of getting into Harvard than anyone at an average PS in NYC. From 2016:
n our dataset, the mean public school score is 1273 and the median is 1227, meaning the distribution is skewed slightly to the right with more high-scoring outliers.
The average score at Stuyvesant was over 2100:
https://nycdatascience.com/blog/wp-cont ... op10_2.png

https://nycdatascience.com/blog/student ... ic-school/
Are they getting in? Is it benefitting the city? Why spend a bunch to train a Formula 1 driver when you are going to give him a top-line Camry to drive?
Per-pupil spending is lower at Stuyvesant than at the average NYC PS: http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/02 ... itures.htm
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nicole
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Re: PS 411

Post by nicole » 21 Jun 2018, 16:23

thoreau wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:16
The quality of instruction depends very much on the students. If you give me a roomful of juniors and seniors, and most of them don't remember most of the key stuff from freshman physics and calculus, I have to spend several weeks reviewing, at the expense of more advanced material. This limits what I can do to properly challenge and stimulate the kids who actually remember something from freshman year.

(Based on a true story.)

Maybe the biggest service that Stuyvesant and Bronx Science and whatnot provide is letting kids take a class where the pace isn't set by somebody whose parents never read to them.
Well, my parents didn't read to me either, but yes.
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nicole
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Re: PS 411

Post by nicole » 21 Jun 2018, 16:24

I mean seriously why should we spend so much on people who are never even going to be able to learn how to drive
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: PS 411

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 21 Jun 2018, 16:32

nicole wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:24
I mean seriously why should we spend so much on people who are never even going to be able to learn how to drive
Most people get jobs eventually. While breaking school into different tracks (vocational, college, etc., with the possibility to move between them) makes more sense than what we have now, getting rid of school does not make sense.

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Jennifer
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jennifer » 21 Jun 2018, 16:40

nicole wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:24
I mean seriously why should we spend so much on people who are never even going to be able to learn how to drive
Part of the problem -- assuming ideal good-faith attitudes from people on both sides of the debate -- is that solving (or attempting to solve) one problem is only going to generate new problems, then solving those problems will bring us back to the original one. F'rinstance: the idea of "mainstreaming" all students (as opposed to having segregated "special ed" schools) is definitely an issue; during my brief public high-school teaching career, my classroom was off the stairwell, two floors above another off-the-stairwell classroom which held the hardcore special-ed kids. I mean, kids so profoundly brain-damaged that they reached age 17+ without even learning to speak, kids who always had to wear helmets ad special padded gloves to avoid accidentally harming themselves -- yet these unfortunates attended the "mainstream" high school.

On the other hand, if we did away with mainstreaming and implemented a system which officially admitted "Not all students are intellectually equal, and not all students have equal chance of succeeding no matter how much money and time we pour into it," you know that system will eventually be abused too: "This-here student is not doing poorly because the kid has a shitty home life without a single book in his house; no, clearly, it's because the kid is inherently inferior. And of course the bulk of those 'inherently inferior' kids are non-Asian non-white people, because what do you expect? Hey, don't call me a racist; call me a race realist."

I don't see any feasible way the system we actually have now can be tweaked to fix the problems in it, yet neither do I see any feasible way to toss the system we have now and replace it with something better.
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thoreau
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Re: PS 411

Post by thoreau » 21 Jun 2018, 16:42

nicole wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:22
Per-pupil spending is lower at Stuyvesant than at the average NYC PS: http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/02 ... itures.htm
You don't have to spend nearly as much money if you don't have to pretend that you're working to solve unsolvable problems.
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JasonL
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Re: PS 411

Post by JasonL » 21 Jun 2018, 16:46

Letting high flyers fly high puts you in the best spot to have the most people positioned to do things that generate growth, surplus, social value, whathaveyou.

I think vocational pathing would make sense, but this idea that great academic environments should be built for randos is ... that's not smart to me.

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Re: PS 411

Post by thoreau » 21 Jun 2018, 16:47

JasonL wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:46
Letting high flyers fly high puts you in the best spot to have the most people positioned to do things that generate growth, surplus, social value, whathaveyou.

I think vocational pathing would make sense, but this idea that great academic environments should be built for randos is ... that's not smart to me.
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Kolohe
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Re: PS 411

Post by Kolohe » 21 Jun 2018, 17:23

Washington-Lee principal Gregg Robertson reported that the Class of 2018 had a 100-percent graduation rate, 176 valedictorians and 69 students who earned International Baccalaureate diplomas. He said the graduating seniors represented “the most positive, kind and hard-working class” in his 15-year tenure.
In the high I attended, 25% of the most recent graduating class are valedictorians.

(when I went, we had a graduating class about half that size, and it was about 10% valedictorians - anyone with a GPA over 5.0 was a valedictorian. An A in a regular class gave you 5 points, but in an AP class gave you 6)
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nicole
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Re: PS 411

Post by nicole » 21 Jun 2018, 20:32

thoreau wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:42
nicole wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 16:22
Per-pupil spending is lower at Stuyvesant than at the average NYC PS: http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/02 ... itures.htm
You don't have to spend nearly as much money if you don't have to pretend that you're working to solve unsolvable problems.
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thoreau
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Re: PS 411

Post by thoreau » 21 Jun 2018, 20:37

And the most expensive rent-seekers always attach themselves to unsolvable problems, because once an unsolvable problem is deemed to be a religious duty, no level of expenditure can be questioned.

Getting a smart, engaging, hard-working person in front of a roomful of smart kids is actually not that expensive. Yeah, smart, hard-working people are never as abundant as you'd like, but they're suckers for fun jobs like asking a lot of smart kids. So you can get them for surprisingly reasonable rates, and you don't need to hire a shit-ton of support staff for them. They're good.

Programs to solve social ills? They hire staff whose sole purpose is to process reports on the need for hiring more staff.
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nicole
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Re: PS 411

Post by nicole » 21 Jun 2018, 20:46

I mean, I learned more in classes where I essentially had no teacher, because I was part of a section of 1-4 kids stacked on top of a real class of 28, than in a normal class. Because we could just work through the textbook.
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Re: PS 411

Post by Aresen » 21 Jun 2018, 21:45

Kolohe wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 17:23
Washington-Lee principal Gregg Robertson reported that the Class of 2018 had a 100-percent graduation rate, 176 valedictorians and 69 students who earned International Baccalaureate diplomas. He said the graduating seniors represented “the most positive, kind and hard-working class” in his 15-year tenure.
In the high I attended, 25% of the most recent graduating class are valedictorians.

(when I went, we had a graduating class about half that size, and it was about 10% valedictorians - anyone with a GPA over 5.0 was a valedictorian. An A in a regular class gave you 5 points, but in an AP class gave you 6)
Do they give the valedictory as a chorus? Or does each valedictorian speak only one sentence and pass the mike to the next? Or was it just a really, really small grad class?
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Jadagul
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jadagul » 21 Jun 2018, 21:49

Aresen wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 21:45
Kolohe wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 17:23
Washington-Lee principal Gregg Robertson reported that the Class of 2018 had a 100-percent graduation rate, 176 valedictorians and 69 students who earned International Baccalaureate diplomas. He said the graduating seniors represented “the most positive, kind and hard-working class” in his 15-year tenure.
In the high I attended, 25% of the most recent graduating class are valedictorians.

(when I went, we had a graduating class about half that size, and it was about 10% valedictorians - anyone with a GPA over 5.0 was a valedictorian. An A in a regular class gave you 5 points, but in an AP class gave you 6)
Do they give the valedictory as a chorus? Or does each valedictorian speak only one sentence and pass the mike to the next? Or was it just a really, really small grad class?
People don't associate the word "valedictorian" with giving a speech any more, despite the etymology.

(I like the way my high school handled it: everyone with a perfect GPA got the award, but they tie-broke to one actual valedictorian who gave a speech. A ninety-second speech, since they were committed to keeping the ceremony under an hour).

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nicole
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Re: PS 411

Post by nicole » 22 Jun 2018, 07:05

If you go to a shitty public school like mine it’s still pretty normal. We had a two-way tie for valedictorian and that was it. Of course, even the two of us didn’t have GPAs of 5 or higher because we didn’t offer enough AP classes for that.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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dhex
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Re: PS 411

Post by dhex » 22 Jun 2018, 10:01

So our county ps system is rolling out Alice training next year. I am deeply not happy about this. Gonna bend some school board ears, to likely little avail.

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JasonL
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Re: PS 411

Post by JasonL » 22 Jun 2018, 10:03

Alice training?

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Re: PS 411

Post by Warren » 22 Jun 2018, 10:40

Presumably involving rabbits, caterpillars, and the proper response to "Eat me",
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dhex
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Re: PS 411

Post by dhex » 22 Jun 2018, 11:36

JasonL wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 10:03
Alice training?
https://www.alicetraining.com

the shoot your participants with airsoft guns thing.
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Re: PS 411

Post by Warren » 22 Jun 2018, 12:47

:lol: pew pew pew
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Jake
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Re: PS 411

Post by Jake » 22 Jun 2018, 13:43

dhex wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 11:36
JasonL wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 10:03
Alice training?
https://www.alicetraining.com

the shoot your participants with airsoft guns thing.
Curiouser and curiouser.
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Ellie
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Re: PS 411

Post by Ellie » 09 Aug 2018, 16:10

Minnesota has a program offering scholarships for preschools to low-income families. You can't apply for the 2018-2019 school year any sooner than July 2018. And then it takes a minimum of 8 weeks to process the application.

So basically there's no way to find out before school starts if you are going to be able to pay for that school or not.

I'm sure it's limited by fiscal year and blah blah but still. Come on. This is not real helpful, guys.
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