If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

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thoreau
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 09 Aug 2019, 14:20

I can believe that people respond to incentives and self-interest, but I can't believe that this country would ever lock up (or even fine) a poultry exec. Yeah, they went after Martha Stewart, but she was a target on the teevee.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Painboy
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Painboy » 09 Aug 2019, 14:23

Ah I see. Hypocrisy in politics doesn't move my blood much these days I guess. It's common enough it's just part of the normal political landscape.

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JasonL
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by JasonL » 09 Aug 2019, 14:41

There’s a lot of the immigration where from here that hinges on this contrast between formal enforcement to create a lobby for normalization vs accepting a large informal labor sector with experiments in deterrence. I see more ways for the latter approach to reach an acceptable equilibrium than I do the former. I don’t think reform has happened because nobody wants it to happen and the enforcement on employers in districts would prove unsustainable.

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Mo
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 09 Aug 2019, 15:05

Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:13
If you put a few poultry execs in jail or fine them, they likely lobby as hard for immigration reform as they do for 4% off top marginal tax rates.
You can't possibly believe this.
Sure I do. Gang of 8 passed 68-32 in the Senate, but got held up in the House by Boehner. House members are more vulnerable to constituent pressure than Senators are. But per thoreau, ain’t no one going to jail. But I could totally see a Harris or Warren DoJ responding asymmetrically in the opposite direction.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Warren
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 09 Aug 2019, 15:51

Arresting executives won't motivate them to lobby for immigration reform. It will motivate them to institute policies that will insulate them from prosecution. The more expensive you make it to comply with labor law the more it benefits large corporations at the expense of small business. Cracking down on employers will be to the benefit of poultry execs, they will be the first to give enthusiastic support for it.
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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Mo
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 09 Aug 2019, 15:52

Their primary competitors won’t have to deal with those labor laws at all.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Warren
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 09 Aug 2019, 15:56

Mo wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:52
Their primary competitors won’t have to deal with those labor laws at all.
Who would they be?
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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Mo
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If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 09 Aug 2019, 15:58

Other countries.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Warren
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 09 Aug 2019, 17:45

So the motivation would be to move production to other countries.
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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thoreau
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 09 Aug 2019, 17:53

Look, nobody here has any delusions that the feds will go after companies that hire undocumented labor, nor are we suggesting that it would be a great thing if that happened. We're just noting that the feds are going after the vulnerable party, and if they went after the party with money for lawyers and lobbyists then there would be consequences. Ideally those consequences would be lobbying for saner immigration laws. The more likely consequence would be that the arresting officers would be investigated for failure to follow some procedure, and would face a punishment stiffer than what they'd get if they shot an unarmed black guy in front of civilian witnesses.

Is this so hard?
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Pham Nuwen » 09 Aug 2019, 21:36

I think the real immigration violations were in our heart all along and the dream of Koch execs going to jail is the friends we made along the way.
Last edited by Pham Nuwen on 10 Aug 2019, 09:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Kolohe
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Kolohe » 10 Aug 2019, 07:11

Trump and the Kochs are pretty much diametrically opposite on immigration policy.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Pham Nuwen » 10 Aug 2019, 09:17

Different koch.
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Warren
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 10 Aug 2019, 09:27

Pham Nuwen wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 09:17
Different koch.
There's a different Koch?
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Pham Nuwen » 10 Aug 2019, 09:41

Warren wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 09:27
Pham Nuwen wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 09:17
Different koch.
There's a different Koch?
it is. The food supplier Koch is different than Charles "Shadowy Cabal" Koch. Or so my google research state.
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Warren
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 10 Aug 2019, 09:54

Pham Nuwen wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 09:41
Warren wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 09:27
Pham Nuwen wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 09:17
Different koch.
There's a different Koch?
it is. The food supplier Koch is different than Charles "Shadowy Cabal" Koch. Or so my google research state.
*google*
Koch Foods wrote:In 1985, Koch Foods started as a one-room chicken de-boning and cutting operation with 13 employees. We’ve grown to be one of the top poultry processors in the U.S., but the core of who we are remains unchanged: adept, reliable and service oriented. Our state-of-the-art equipment allows us to process chicken with great efficiency, while our company structure keeps us nimble and able to react quickly to the needs of our customers and changes in the marketplace.
huh
I think in terms of credibility and it's all black eyes as far as you can see in the media landscape. - JasonL

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Pham Nuwen » 10 Aug 2019, 09:59

I AM THE ONE WHO KOCHS!
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Aresen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Aresen » 10 Aug 2019, 10:02

I am sure the Blues will spare no effort to ensure that name of the owners of the chicken plant is not confused with the billionaires of the same surname.

/snark
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Highway
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Highway » 10 Aug 2019, 12:37

Pham definitely knows his Koch.

;)
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Pham Nuwen » 10 Aug 2019, 12:51

You know it.
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thoreau
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 10 Aug 2019, 12:55

Whichever Koch family it might be, the most important libertarian point is that going after employers of illegal immigrants would be even worse than going after illegal immigrants.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Pham Nuwen » 10 Aug 2019, 12:57

Dammit Thoreau! The koch jokes dont write themselves. You need to work with me and highway.

Edited to remove a name
Last edited by Pham Nuwen on 10 Aug 2019, 20:49, edited 1 time in total.
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thoreau
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 10 Aug 2019, 12:58

You are not entitled to my emotional labor.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Pham Nuwen » 10 Aug 2019, 13:00

Social contract!
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

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Eric the .5b
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Aug 2019, 20:23

Unrelated blah de blah.
Last edited by Eric the .5b on 10 Aug 2019, 22:39, edited 1 time in total.
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