If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

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Jennifer
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Jennifer » 19 Jun 2018, 22:07

A Fox News panelist mentions a 10-year-old with Down's syndrome taken from her mother at the border. Corey Lewandowski dismissively responds "womp womp."



They're not even pretending not to be sociopaths anymore, are they?
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Painboy
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Painboy » 19 Jun 2018, 23:28

Not that I support this in anyway but haven't they been doing this for the last 10-15 years?

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Kolohe
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Kolohe » 19 Jun 2018, 23:33

Yes:


But in much smaller doses.

Quantity has a quality all its own.
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JasonL
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by JasonL » 19 Jun 2018, 23:46

That’s the thing. Everyone is acting like the expansion of prosecutions instead of releases isn’t a thing. It’s a thing. It is a choice this administration made and it creates much more of this.

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Mo
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 19 Jun 2018, 23:48

Isn't that different as it was detaining families together, rather than separating them.
The tweet wrote:The reason otherwise friendly partisans on the left went to the mat with the Obama Admin is because we saw the utter inhumanity that happens inside these internment camps. Women aren’t allowed to let their children farther than 3 feet away from them. Imagine your toddler.
It's fucked up, but qualitative different from family separation. Trump took cruel and dialed it up to 11.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 20 Jun 2018, 00:43

Democrats want a bureaucracy that will do cruel and inhuman things in orderly, measured ways after boxes have been checked and paperwork has been stamped and everything is in order.

Republicans want to take that to its logical end.

Then Democrats look at the mess that Republicans made and say "Now, now, we clearly need to pull back a few of the excesses, reassign people in ways that don't actually stop their career advancement, and make sure that the next time this is done it is done in a more orderly, slightly less excessive way." So they do that.

Then Republicans take it and have fun with it.

The next Blue President, whenever they take office, will make sure that fewer children are ripped from parents, that Procedures Are Followed when it happens, that everything is in place so that if it should ever be ramped up it will only happen In An Orderly Fashion (unless somebody pushes the system past its capacity, in which case it's clearly the fault of the Red who does that and not the Blue who very carefully designed it to run smoothly if kept within specs). They will also make it very clear that everyone involved in this is to move to slightly more boring jobs while manuals are written, and nobody is to actually suffer any consequence that could prevent the CBP version of Gina Haspel from moving up the ranks over time.
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Mo
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 20 Jun 2018, 09:04

People yelling at Nielsen are the real fascists. Also, the supposed mob violence were the people who were merely making her uncomfortable with a non-violent protest at a Mexican (irony is not dead) restaurant.

Code: Select all

https://twitter.com/pegobry/status/1009305971926106112
Temporarily separating children at border: literally Auschwitz.

Normalizing mob violence against political opponents, which is literally a fascist trait: totally awesome.

Code: Select all

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/1009234436519493635
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nicole
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by nicole » 20 Jun 2018, 10:06

And here I thought you were going to quote from this morning's H&R comments to that effect lol
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Warren » 20 Jun 2018, 12:21

Mo wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 23:48
Isn't that different as it was detaining families together, rather than separating them.
The tweet wrote:The reason otherwise friendly partisans on the left went to the mat with the Obama Admin is because we saw the utter inhumanity that happens inside these internment camps. Women aren’t allowed to let their children farther than 3 feet away from them. Imagine your toddler.
It's fucked up, but qualitative different from family separation. Trump took cruel and dialed it up to 11.
This is true. But the cruel has been osculating from 3-7 since before I was born. The US government has torn children from the arms of loving immigrant parents during every administration. It has been going on a long long time, and getting people to give a shit about it has been a long Sisyphean struggle.

My hope is that this fresh horror will drive real reform over the finish line and leave a lingering dread that will last generations. I'm not saying this is a good thing. And I'm certainly not saying this was Trump's plan all along. I just hope America will become a better nation, and I'm hanging that hope on the current abhorrence being felt and expressed.
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Jennifer
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Jennifer » 20 Jun 2018, 14:18

Do y'all remember a couple of years ago, when I found that Soviet-nostalgia forum including a thread justifing the Berlin Wall and saying that anyone who got killed trying to cross it deserved it?
Fitzy wrote:It was necessary to stop the brain drain. Contracts are common in all societies, and they are made to be enforced.

If people got shot crossing the border, its their own fault, everyone who did get shot knew very well that it would probably happen.
Mabool wrote:
If people got shot crossing the border, its their own fault, everyone who did get shot knew very well that it would probably happen.
THIS. It gets especially disgusting when the capitalists feign sadness about the children who died at the wall - like it's not their parents' fault, who knew exactly what would happen? What kind of parent would send their child to certain death?
I'm seeing pretty much identical arguments from the MAGA maggots: it's the parents' own fault for trying to come here, and furthermore the liberals/democrats/never-Trumpers are only pretending to be upset because they'd criticize anything Trump does no matter how self-evidently good it is.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 20 Jun 2018, 17:53

I would love to see the thought process behind, “If the government is unjust, I need a gun to shoot government agents,” and, “Disturbing the DHS Secretary at dinner and posting public LinkedIn info of ICE agents who are part of an unjust government is a step too far.”
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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thoreau
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 20 Jun 2018, 18:07

Mo wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 17:53
I would love to see the thought process behind, “If the government is unjust, I need a gun to shoot government agents,” and, “Disturbing the DHS Secretary at dinner and posting public LinkedIn info of ICE agents who are part of an unjust government is a step too far.”
The flowchart needs a branching point based on skin color. Duh.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 20 Jun 2018, 18:12

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 20 Jun 2018, 18:18

Mo wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 18:12
What the everliving fuck.

https://www.seattlepi.com/national/arti ... 011053.php
Everyone who was involved in those decisions, from the guys "just following orders" to the highest officials, should be in jail. General population.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Jennifer
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Jennifer » 20 Jun 2018, 18:21

As Jeff Sessions would say, that only proves how good the migrant kids have it in prison -- they're getting medical care which even American children don't necessarily enjoy!
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by lunchstealer » 20 Jun 2018, 18:48

Jennifer wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 18:21
As Jeff Sessions would say, that only proves how good the migrant kids have it in prison -- they're getting medical care which even American children don't necessarily enjoy!
Having been inside a juvenile mental health facility, yeah I can definitely say that American kids don't enjoy that kind of medical care.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Eric the .5b » 20 Jun 2018, 18:58

And my cynicism explodes as I follow the links and learn that this abuse is a continuing thing documented not not just back into the Obama administration, but was already being litigated back in the Bush administration.

It's undoubtedly happening to many more children now, as the number of kids in detention has exploded, but it's not new. It's like a shithead president throwing a lot more people in prison, and then the opposition party tries to pretend he invented prison rape.
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Kolohe » 20 Jun 2018, 21:48

Speaking of military lawyers...

(I'm skeptical that this is actually a thing)

edit- otoh, I think I saw that the EO Trump signed today directed DoD to provide support to DHS on a wide range of things (though I thought the main thing was logistics - i.e. the military knows how the throw up a tent city (even one with air conditioning) rather quickly)
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by JasonL » 21 Jun 2018, 09:56

Mo wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 18:12
What the everliving fuck.

https://www.seattlepi.com/national/arti ... 011053.php
I would want to see cross verification of the key elements of that story. The language in there was not suggestive of credibility to me.

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Mo
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 21 Jun 2018, 11:03

I would presume that would happen during legal discovery.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Aresen » 24 Jun 2018, 10:15

Or maybe they won't:

Our newest fear at the border: A children’s choir

In fairness, they weren't actually turned away. They were concerned that some or all of them might be and USBPS would then have a years-long record of them being turned away. So they decided not to take the risk.
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Mo
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Mo » 27 Jun 2018, 14:09

Mitch McConnell doesn't know what ICE is supposed to do.
We even had a credible potential candidate for president in 2020 suggest we get rid of ICE, the border enforcement agency. I think the Democrats are going hard left.
I suppose that's news to CBP.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Jennifer
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Jennifer » 27 Jun 2018, 14:42

The inmates in kid prison are being forced to pledge allegiance to the flag of the country that took them from their parents.
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Jennifer
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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by Jennifer » 28 Jun 2018, 15:17

Immigrant toddlers taken from their parents have to represent themselves in court at their deportation proceedings.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/06/27 ... D=ref_fark
As the White House faces court orders to reunite families separated at the border, immigrant children as young as 3 are being ordered into court for their own deportation proceedings, according to attorneys in Texas, California and Washington, D.C.

Requiring unaccompanied minors to go through deportation alone is not a new practice. But in the wake of the Trump administration’s controversial family separation policy, more young children — including toddlers — are being affected than in the past.

The 2,000-plus separated children will likely need to deal with court proceedings even as they grapple with the ongoing trauma of being taken from their parents.

“We were representing a 3-year-old in court recently who had been separated from the parents. And the child — in the middle of the hearing — started climbing up on the table,” said Lindsay Toczylowski, executive director of Immigrant Defenders Law Center in Los Angeles. “It really highlighted the absurdity of what we’re doing with these kids.”

The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which oversees the deportations of unauthorized immigrants, did not respond to a request for comment.

Toczylowski said parents typically have been tried along with young children and have explained the often-violent circumstances that led them to seek asylum in the U.S.

The children being detained under the new “zero tolerance” policy, though, are facing immigration proceedings without mom or dad by their side.

“The parent might be the only one who knows why they fled from the home country, and the child is in a disadvantageous position to defend themselves,” Toczylowski said....
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: If We Build It, They'll Probably Still Come

Post by thoreau » 28 Jun 2018, 15:30

"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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